turtles
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Author Topic: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz  (Read 1603 times)

Offline Starfish

Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«: April 30, 2013, 12:12:13 AM»
Edit: I thought I was on the review board, I apologize.

I recently went on an art binge, and got a few artists to do art for me that I salivated over for a while. I haven't had a problem until just now. I had wanted to commission http://untruthfull.deviantart.com/ for the longest time, and decided I wanted to get a port done from her.  $25 didn't seem too pricey from the amount of detail it looked like she put into her artwork. She asked for it up front, which is fine, but she said to send it as "friends or family", which got me a little suspicious since if things went badly, I couldn't ask for my money back. This being the case, I haven't asked for a refund since the port was finished, but not before a whole fiasco would ensue.

The final port.
http://untruthfull.deviantart.com/art/Coconut-368774121?q=gallery%3Auntruthfull%2F19426917&qo=0

The actual character
http://i.imgur.com/67zaCbk.jpg

I was whispered in game by Pose, and given a join.me link. What she showed me was a finished lineart with a lot of errors. The placement of a lot of features was wrong, as long as the character's body type. I let these things slide, but what I had the biggest problem with was the anatomy of it. I had told her in total of two times (when she showed me the lineart, and then when she gave me the finished product. She ignored me both times, but reluctantly fixed the armpit after a lot of nagging.) I've summed up what she said because I don't have permission to post her logs.


She links the join.me
(19:15:43) Coconut: ooh
(19:16:27) Coconut: It's so lovely, but her right arm looks a little out of place.
(19:17:30) Coconut: The neck looks a tad long for where the shoulder is. It should be pulled back a wee bit.
She says this is alright.
(19:18:30) Coconut: The only other problem I can see is that her left arm is too long, but that can be fixed by pulling the neck back.
She asks why it looks too long, and shows me on the lineart where the hand end.

(19:19:45) Coconut: That must be what is messing me up. It's a very slight curve for the hand, and it's hard to see.
She says it will be more apparent when it's shaded (which it did in the end.)
(19:20:45) Coconut: I was just thinking that. Last thing is that her shell comes up just over her shoulder.
She says okay, but she never fixes it.
(19:21:11) Coconut: Other than that I'm so thrilled.
(19:24:18) Coconut: Would you hate me if I also asked for her torso to be facing the viewer more? And the starfish larger since I want to use it in my friend's T+ dream.
She says she'll change the size of the starfish, but she won't change the angle of the torso.
(19:27:23) Coconut: Okay.
(19:28:32) Coconut: Could her arm be pulled back so that the elbow is resting on her knee, then?
(19:33:07) Coconut: Her right arm. It seems like it's out of place, and in a casual pose it would be resting on the knee.
(19:38:08) Pose: Alright.
(21:13:30) Pose: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26017702/furcart/CoconutPort.png
(21:24:40) Coconut: IT's perfect! Thank you! (i only had a second to look at it as I was playing another game, but looking back on it I ask her about the same edits which she had ignored)
(21:28:13) Coconut: Would you mind if I did some slight editing?
She says she would mind, and asks what needs to be fixed.
(21:30:03) Coconut: The arm/neck is still bothering me.
(21:31:34) Coconut: The neck just looks too long, and the arm/shoulder too high.
She says she won't fix it because it's not wrong, and then links me to two references that do not justify the length of the neck.
(21:35:29) Coconut: The neck is too long for the character. And the armpit is still too high.
She pulls the "It's my style", when none of her other works have this weird neck length.
(21:38:33) Coconut: It would take two minutes tops to paint over the armpit line, and that's all I want at this point.
(21:38:44) Coconut: 0 if you just let me do it.
She points out her rules of no editing.
(21:40:36) Coconut: Then could you please just fix it?
(21:41:15) Coconut: I haven't even mentioned that you got her body type wrong.
(21:42:50) Pose: If you reclick the links, it's fixed.
(21:43:07) Coconut: Thank you.

Overall I'm out $25 because what I received was subpar to the older ports she put up as her examples, and her very poor attitude. I will not be using the port, and she's free to do whatever she wants with it. She put in her time for the port, and that's what I paid for, but I don't think it's worth uploading.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 10:38:58 AM by Starfish »

 
        

Offline Untruthfull

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA
«Reply #1: April 30, 2013, 05:34:59 AM»
To be correct, I did change where the shell was, I moved it up. I also fixed the elbow location, and everything else IS my style. Her neck is not 'too long', her head is leaned to the side. Also, as for body type, if you'd given me more information than just a chibi ref that obviously doesn't show it well, that wouldn't have happened.


It was not sketchy of me to request payment upfront or as friends and family, because you have commissioned me before, and then cancelled; after I had already done the sketch. I wouldn't let that happen this time, because I don't like doing work for nothing.


I truly am sorry you didn't like it, but you can't ask an artist to change their style. Because that's what it is. I gave you quality work, and I myself quite enjoy the portrait.


I do not appreciate the slander. I have not wronged you, you are not 'out 25 dollars' you got the product you paid for. I'm sorry it didn't turn out as you expected. I just refuse to invest any more time into something that I do not see as wrong. Just because my style and anatomy are different from what you see as correct, doesn't mean it's wrong. It doesn't look any less than anything else I've done. I also don't appreciate your friends attacking me either.

Offline Outlands

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA
«Reply #2: April 30, 2013, 09:08:15 AM»
I do actually agree with Untruthful - If you did not like the port you should have at least asked for a refund or stopped part way through. I do agree that she could've had something better to work from than a chibi reference too.

I find the port to be a very nice piece and I'm not quite sure as to why it bothers you. If you take a good look at the similarities in her other ports, the one in question actually stands out rather nicely.

I've also seen your friends posting on her DA too, that may or may not be because of you but I find that a little insensitive - This was between you and the artist and nobody else. I think Untruthful has worked hard to fit your demands and eventually got tired of the problems you kept finding. I see nothing wrong with the port.

Are you out $25 or will you still be using it regardless?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 09:11:28 AM by Outlands »

Offline Starfish

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA
«Reply #3: April 30, 2013, 09:17:34 AM»
@Untruthfull

It wasn't so much that it was your style as it was the fact you dug your heels into everything. The changes you made were minimal if there were at all. I was paying for the art, and it only matters to me that it looks good. I asked for very simple lineart edits from the start, and got attitude the entire process. I'm sorry David attacked you. I had nothing to do with it.

What got me the most was that in your own rules you state that minor edits would be made, and from what I saw the minimal edits I asked for weren't. That was the problem I had. When I asked if I could spare you the effort, and edit it myself, I was refused. Which is silly since I paid for it, I could have done whatever I wanted with it. If someone buys a painting, and paints a flower a different color, the original artist can't revoke that persons right to own the painting.


Edit:
I didn't ask for a refund because she made the port. I paid for her time. I will not be using the port, and she's free to do with it as she pleases.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 09:57:52 AM by Starfish »

Offline Mayim

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #4: April 30, 2013, 01:18:22 PM»
Moved to the correct section. If anyone feels it necessary to comment, keep it civil.

Offline Untruthfull

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #5: April 30, 2013, 01:41:13 PM»
Starfish,

I did not 'drag my heels' into everything. But how would you feel, if someone changed their mind every five bloody minutes, or found everything you spent your hard time on to be wrong? Of course I was a bit bothered by all your changes. But I did all the reasonable ones. Its not my fault you failed to see them. The changes ARE there, you just weren't paying enough attention. Of which, is not my problem.

If you were so concerned to have me draw her spot on, and for my anatomy to be 'correct', then you should have provided me better references or you just shouldn't have commissioned me. The art I provided you is no less than any of my other works, I worked on it just as hard, and even longer to fix all your changes that you 'kept finding'.

While I don't expect you to give me business again, don't worry. I won't accept money from you, since you so obviously have a problem with the fact that I draw things my own way.

I find it is disrespectful to the artist you are commissioning to edit their work, so no, often times, I refuse it. But you AGREED to my rules by commissioning me. There is no use in you belly aching over them now. If you hadn't read them, again, not my problem. You are held to them as everyone else who commissions me is.


From the Terms and Policies of another beautiful artist, Aqua Dark:

"Revisions
Taken from the lovely Tiamat
        We do not do revisions that are based on our style. We draw and color in a very particular way. This includes face shapes, lighting effects, eye shape, ear shape, shines, etc. Please decide whether or not you like the style of the artist before commissioning us.
Please trust our artistic judgment! We may not be perfect, but we've been doing this for a long time."


I could not agree with those terms more, especially after dealing with a few people like you. Most of the things you found wrong, are my style. And that sums it up perfectly.

Just as how you draw is your style, how I draw is mine.

So please, as a fellow artist, allow me to commission you, and change my mind 30 times in one night, and then when you finally show me the work, have a dozen changes to fix that are my fault, not the artist, for lack of communication.

And then we can see how you appreciate it. It's no wonder I started to get snippy with you.


At this point, I don't even mind the bad review, whats one bad review in hundreds of good ones? Just shows me who to decline business to in the future.

So while I am sorry you do not enjoy the product I gave you, I am done with this slandering banter from you and your friend, 'David'.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 01:53:35 PM by Untruthfull »

Offline Lovecraft

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #6: April 30, 2013, 02:42:47 PM»
honestly untruthfull, it looks like you looked at the ref maybe once or twice while squinting lol. a lot of the colouring on her character is wrong.

you really should be a little more concerned with the fact that your customer was unhappy with the received commission rather than being on the defensive so much. maybe you're unaware of how business actually works on a fundamental level, but if you have an unhappy customer they can really hurt your cashflow by telling and showing others that the service rendered was less than satisfactory and that they were met with a lot of opposition when you were asked to change it lol.

starfish treated you pretty respectfully during your conversation and you actually had no right to get snippy despite feeling like you were entitled to. you put in work, but she still gave you 25 dollars of her money and you wouldn't even let her edit it to better resemble the character. it was nice of her to swallow the cost and cut her losses by letting you resell it as a premade and make more money.

this thread is definitely being circulated and people are coming forward about how unhappy they are with what they received from you, but were just too intimidated or even upset to tell you. i'm not telling you this to stir the pot and make you feel bad, but you really just should be a little more mindful of how the way you regard people and how it actually does affect your business... you've made it clear you don't value one individual customer, how will your others feel appreciated? :/

it's just a little arrogant of you.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 02:45:56 PM by Lovecraft »
We shall see that at which dogs howl in the dark, and that at which cats prick up their ears after midnight.

Offline Untruthfull

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #7: April 30, 2013, 03:05:15 PM»
I treat all my commissioners with respect, but when I do not receive it, and she can't tell me WHY something looks wrong to her other than it does, I will not correct it. Unless she has a reason to exactly why it looks wrong. Everything that made sense and wasn't just her failing to understand how I draw bodies, I corrected.

If I had the before and after of each edit, I would show you, but I'm afraid I don't. However, I did make the changes she asked for.

I treated her with respect up until the end where I refused to make further edits. Everything else, I said okay to, and did, or I told her no, and why. But I did not treat her unfairly even when she decided to tell me she loved it, and then a bit later say she had all sorts of issues. Those are things that are corrected when the sketch is shown, in her case I showed her the line-art because she commissioned a pixel portrait and the line art often differs from the sketch a lot. She didn't bring up a few of the edits, such as body type until the finished product, which is not my fault. She should have caught it when she was shown the line-art.

I made all the reasonable edits, I was patient with her, and I even sat through hours of her crazy the night she commissioned me.

I had her reference up the entire time I was working on it, and I even eyedroppered her colors, all the way down to the darker spots on her shell. So you are wrong to tell me I got her colors wrong, I took the colors directly from her ref. As for the blue hair, she personally asked for it.


Also, if there are other people who were unhappy, I'm sorry, they should have came to me. However, not much can be done about that now.


Offline Lovecraft

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #8: April 30, 2013, 03:14:35 PM»
sat through hours of her crazy? wow, that's extremely insensitive and pretty rude. it seems like the issue here for the most-part is that you really have a tolerance problem. it's okay, you've painted a pretty good picture of yourself, how you "value" commissioners, and your work ethics. it's never smart to bite the hand that feeds, but clearly you don't mind.

anyway, i'll go ahead and bow out now so that this doesn't devolve further and stray from the topic. for your own sake, though... you should really be more mindful... the colours don't even match those on the ref you were given lol. i mean, come on.
We shall see that at which dogs howl in the dark, and that at which cats prick up their ears after midnight.

Offline Tarra

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #9: April 30, 2013, 04:13:32 PM»
This is just my opinion so don't take it as a personal attack, but, if someone pays you to make them art or a portrait it could be the most beautiful piece of art you've ever done. But if the person commissioning you wants you to give it noodle arms, a long neck and pink polka dots its not your place to say no. They're paying you for your time and skills to make a product that THEY want, not what you want or what you think looks best. Personally I make edits anyone asks for until they're happy. If I'm unable to edit it how they want I give them permission to edit to their hearts content. It's just good business.

Offline Lovecraft

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #10: April 30, 2013, 06:38:34 PM»
This is just my opinion so don't take it as a personal attack, but, if someone pays you to make them art or a portrait it could be the most beautiful piece of art you've ever done. But if the person commissioning you wants you to give it noodle arms, a long neck and pink polka dots its not your place to say no. They're paying you for your time and skills to make a product that THEY want, not what you want or what you think looks best. Personally I make edits anyone asks for until they're happy. If I'm unable to edit it how they want I give them permission to edit to their hearts content. It's just good business.

absolutely this right here. and if your customer was so devastated with what she received that she told you she preferred to not even upload it, that should have been a red flag and a definite opening for you to try and make good on it lol.
We shall see that at which dogs howl in the dark, and that at which cats prick up their ears after midnight.

Offline Lovecraft

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #11: April 30, 2013, 07:34:34 PM»


so basically as a commissioner you need to drop everything to approve the art right then and there, your thorough ref sheet is not good enough, your money as a commissioner is lousy, and if you don't like that you can take a hike...
We shall see that at which dogs howl in the dark, and that at which cats prick up their ears after midnight.

Offline Untruthfull

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #12: April 30, 2013, 09:58:09 PM»
@Stef

She asked for the hair to be aqua.

Offline Kye

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #13: April 30, 2013, 10:45:57 PM»
I honestly can't believe that someone would go so far as to make a post complaining that they spent money on an artist whose art style they don't like. This portrait is classic Untruthfull and it's absolutely gorgeous... she obviously put a lot of effort into making it and trying to meet all of your nitpicking demands.
Sure, as a commissioner you have the right to ask for edits, but when you start simply insulting her style instead of asking constructively it's not a surprise that she would become fed up. Next time though don't harass, try to publicly humiliate her or make her come across as being a bad business woman. It's just hurtful and unnecessary.

Offline Mayim

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #14: April 30, 2013, 11:04:30 PM»
This is a REVIEW THREAD. Any more unnecessary commentary will result in this being locked.

Offline Starfish

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #15: May 01, 2013, 01:00:12 AM»
I made this as a review, not an attack. I believed the port to be subpar to her other works, and the anatomy flaws did not line up with her "style". I commissioned her in the first place because I honestly love her artwork, and she's very talented. I found the port , and her etiquette to be lacking. That's all.

Offline Naizon

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #16: May 01, 2013, 04:04:48 PM»
Sorry to hear that your commission didn't go as you wanted but as someone else mentioned earlier, why didn't you just ask for a refund?

You watched as how it turned out, saw that a bit of anatomy wasn't sitting your style and still went along with it. At that point, I would have asked for a refund then.

I've only commissioned Untruthfull once for a full body piece and she asked me if there was anything wrong during the join.me stream to let me know if she should make any edits. And there were minimal, I still let her know ahead of time. I'd say she is great to work with, by far one of the artists I'd like ot commission.

Sorry to hear that your experience didn't turn out so well for you.

Offline Mayim

Re: Pose/Untruthfull on DA Move plz
«Reply #17: May 01, 2013, 05:14:08 PM»
Since people do not seem to understand, I have locked this thread. If Starfish wishes to add anything in the future, she may contact a moderator.