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Author Topic: Creating a standard "code of conduct" for contest holders and entrants  (Read 2898 times)

Offline Tate

Okay. This is a discussion, and suggestions thread about how you, the members of Faz, feel contest holders should act toward their contestants, and how the contestants should act likewise.

Hopefully, once we find a set of thing that the whole, or atleast majority, of the community agrees on, it will be posted as a code of conduct as a compiled list. Also, hopefully, anyone going against it shall be handled.

Now, we have all had our fair share of trouble in contests. It's either the contestants are pestering the holders to far too great a level, or the holders are cheating in their contests! We need to solve this, and solve this quickly. Or atleast help make it easier on all of us, and to stop anyone from jipping another.

Now, This is the suggestions thread. IT will be run for a week or so, until we compile a decent amount of suggestions. Then it shall all be compiled into a list, and posted on another thread, to be voted on. Once it has all been tallied up on agree or disagree, the final list will be made and submitted to the mods to be approved and implemented.

So, go ahead and post what you think should be in it. Rules, how others should act in these situations, ect., ect., whatever you feel applies.

 
        

Offline Sync

i personally think one thing that's really annoying is that the artists happen to use their entries as avatars and signatures, pointing out the winner.

another thing... they keep changing their prizes to cheaper things nobody wants when they were originally like.. life classics(and i mean changes like... from life classics to an alt with one crappy portrait). i know people sometimes have to change the prize, but don't make the change so drastic.(like. life classics to a three year dragon might be ok).

that's really all i can think of that could work with the code. everything else is like... keeping all the ports without consolation prizes and stuff like that.

Offline Eevee

The one thing I hate about most contests is that the holder tells everyone not to edit and sell their entries if they don't win without offering compensation for the work they've done.

I think its fair that if they don't get /anything/ at all that they'd be allowed to edit their entries to not look like the person's character to sell and make profit off of or if everyone receives a prize in the contest whether they made first/second/third place or not that they can't sell the portraits since they got something from it.

That'd probably be something hard to keep to since not everyone can afford enough prizes to give to every entrant but that just means they need to keep saving and think about if they are really ready to hold a contest or not.

Offline Tate

Anyone else?

Offline Zodiac

This is what I can think of..

- Make it clear if work submitted is going to be kept regardless of if it won or not.

- Don't change prizes a million times.

- Pick a due date and stick to it. One or two changes might be fine, but too many changes is annoying and hard to keep track of.

- If you are going to hold a contest and KEEP all work, at LEAST make the prize something WORTH that. A chance to win 100GD by submitting a port or other work that will be kept no matter what is a lot more respectable than offering a 30GD prize and expecting people to just give up all their hard work.

Offline Anarchy

I will not join a contest where the holder gets to keep all the entries without payment. Period.

I think it's taking advantage of ALL the artists who enter, even the ones who win.
The entries that don't get a 'prize' should either be paid for or the artist should be allowed to edit and sell the portrait.

Offline Narnia

I agree with Anarchy. I think it is unethical to keep a portrait without compensating the artist. If I enter a piece of art into an art show, they don't get to keep it when it's over even if no one purchases it.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Art Zone, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline Tate

Good, good. :3 I completely agree, Narnia and Anarchy.

Anyone else? Come on, people, we need a while list. I will try to compensate with my own ideas, but I w ould rather have it all from you guys.. Then we vote. >:)

Offline Kiwi

Just as a point of information to stir up the pot (and play a little devil's advocate):

What if someone changes something as simple as the name of what they are doing? So, they are no longer holding a portrait contest, but a portrait raffle. Then the portrait(s) they make count as 'tickets' towards winning the prizes. But just like any raffle, you don't get the money and tickets you put in back into your pockets.

Maybe at the end of the raffle entries are judged based on certain qualities reflecting the characters. The better the portrayal or other qualities being looked at the more tickets in the pot. By having this last judging step for tickets into the pot it can encourage the integrity that people are just submitting random lines and colors because portraits like those would receive one or no tickets into the pot.

As I said, just something to stir up the pot and think about. The wording we choose to use makes a big difference on the perception others may have.

Offline Narnia

A raffle would indicate that each entrant has an equal chance of winning per 'ticket' purchased. If you give a particular entrant more 'tickets' based upon subjective qualities than you no longer have a raffle, you have a contest. If name of each entrant is thrown into a hat for each portrait they submit, and the name is drawn at random, then you have a raffle in which the art would not be returned.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Art Zone, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline Kiwi

A very valid point I didn't think about Narnia. Thereby drop my third paragraph out. Continue to call it a raffle with your 100GD prize - artists can submit as many portraits as they want for entries (which then also gives artists equal chance of winning since they don't feel they have no chance because they see the 'big wigs' going in for it) and you have an entirely new concept.

Offline Tate

:3 That was a very interesting line of thought.

But, Kiwi, if it were a raffle...then it wouldn't be a contest, anymore. If they started out as a contest, it should stay a contest. If the changed it in the middle of it, do you not think they should be penalized? The artists entered, thinking their skill would get them somewhere.

No offence to the less practiced artists, but it's unfair to the more skilled artists, especially if the change came around /because/ of the less skilled artists thinking it's unfair because they're up against the better artists.

Honestly, I would think that a very good reason to /get better/, and be one of those "bigwigs"..

Either way you go about it, them changing a contest to be a raffle is unfair, all around, in that it doesn't make the less practiced artists want to try harder, in that it overturns any effort the better artists put in, and that it is almost exactly the same as changing the prize..in concept. I'm sure you can make the connection..

Offline Kiwi

Just a couple points of information: I'm throwing ideas out there.

As for contest to raffle - my point would be it starts as a raffle and well known it is a raffle from the beginning. I agree, things should not change so dramatically during the duration of whatever it maybe.

As for 'big wigs,' growing artists, the unknowns - what made me think to add what I said in the previous statement was the discussion once held on why people enter contests. As I recall correctly from this discussion, I got out of it people entered it for the prize, but some newer artists felt overwhelmed by the well known artists and felt there was favoritism among those chosen. Hence why I added the statement I made in the entirely different concept of the raffle.

And the reason I brought up the wording for the raffle was the brief discussion above on keeping the entry portraits.

And on the final note: I do understand your concerns and see your points on less practice artists have no need to try harder if they are on equal footing as those well known artists.

Again, I was turning the box a little to try and understand all the points of view expressed.

Offline Hugo

Contest holders should be required to pick and post the winners of their contest for everyone to see. A contest for a life dragon that I entered never picked a winner even though I saw the girl wearing some of the entries on her main character.

She changed her deadline so many times that people forgot about her contest and the fact they they entered and after a few months she deleted the thread with a shitload of new ports and no questions ever raised.

When pursued by me about it she simply said she spent the prize and couldn't have the contest anymore. I asked why she didn't announce this to the entrants and she stopped responding.

Offline Narnia

For the purpose of creating a code of conduct for contests, I don't think we can consider a raffle.

A raffle is a raffle. All entrants, regardless of talent have an equal chance of winning. The likelihood that you get bad ports goes up, but you get to keep everything entered. This is also discouraging to the good artists who would rather their work be judged rather than win a prize on the luck of a draw.

Also, I agree with Hugo's new post (which was made while I was typing).
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Art Zone, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline Kiwi

Narnia: Agreed.

Offline Tate

Okay. So so far, I think we have...

1. No changing your prizes.
 a) No changes are to be made unless it is making the prizes larger. Downsizing is wrong, as the contestants already entered are thus being cheated.

2. Have your prizes before starting the contest--and do not "spend" them! (This one one more or less taken from the other posts without them posting it specifically, I think.)

3. Make it clear if you are to keep all of the entries, or not.
 a)If you are going to keep all of the entries, consolation prizes should be handed out. Otherwise, the artists should be allowed to resell the work. (With edits.)

4. Set a closing date and judging date, and keep to it.
 a) One or two changes may be made, But-They  may not be major, nor can they be "Just because".

5. You are required to post the winner of the contest within (amount of time) of the contest ending.

Did I miss anything so far?

Oh, and we need guidelines for the contestants, too!!!

I think........ 1. If the prize is allowed to be resold, you must make /atleast/ 1-2 edits.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 02:02:25 PM by Tachs »

Offline Lord

Okay. So so far, I think we have...

1. No changing your prizes.
 a) No changes are to be made unless it is making the prizes larger. Downsizing is wrong, as the contestants already entered are thus being cheated.

2. Have your prizes before starting the contest--and do not "spend" them! (This one one more or less taken from the other posts without them posting it specifically, I think.)

actually, there might be a few people who may want specifics here--perhaps the prize was cash via paypal or something, and an emergency came up in real-life, meaning the person would have to either downsize by selling the digos for needed cash or use the cash offered in prizes.

though, i would say that they'd at LEAST have to give a fair warning that they needed to use the prizes, and either 1. postpone the contest until they have money to pay the artists for what they've won (OR give a longer deadline if they know EXACTALLY when they'll be able to get more prizes), or 2. cancel the contest if they are unable to get the prizes back and allow the artists to resell the portraits with edits

ALSO, with the edits.

i think it should not be just 1-2 edits, but until the portrait no longer resembles the character.

Offline Sync

i agree with julie.
i believe the port needs to be editted to the point where it no longer looks like the character at all.
like, say i entered this port in a contest and didn't win(fengo drew it, but i'm too lazy to grab one of my own):

i would remove the helm, the hair, and all markings so that it would just be a genric winged wolf; not looking like the character at all.

i also think that even if the character is an official character, the port still needs to be editted.
like, say i had a port contest where the contestants drew naruto or something.
all the contestants would didn't win would be required to edit the port to no longer look like naruto even if he is an official.

Offline Mala

Agreeing with everyone here, I think if the contest holder is not giving out some prize to every contestant, they should at least be allowed to keep their work.

And important things, such as deadlines and prizes, should not be changed more than a couple times.

Just mah two cents.

Offline Tate

Unfortunately, no matter how much of a touchy subject it is, you cannot force the artist to make more than one edit. The edit thing is merely to avoid lawsuits.

This is just going to be a code of conduct, a general guideline. If you want to instate that they must put more than two edits in their entries, then put it in your contests. Unless an admin has something to say about this, I don't think I can make it a rule that they must completely change their art because of your own sensitivities, as not everyone feels this way. (Don't think I wouldn't be upset about it--I would.)

Offline Narnia

Let me preface this with that fact that I am not an artist nor a lawyer.

However, to resell the art without an edits I don't really think can cause any legal ramification. Unless you have sought a copyright (in the US) on the character in question, then you are not legally able to recover damages (if you actually experience any). It is my understanding that a 'character' can not be copyrighted because it is only an idea not fixed in any tangible form. You could trademark the name, but not copyright the character. The artist who creates a drawing owns the copyright to the work and I don't think they could be forced to edit the work before resale.

The argument of copyright would be a whole different discussion though.

My personal opinion is that it is a courtesy for the artist to make an edit, but you have no legal grounds to compel them to make an edit.

Also, if a prize is changed mid-contest artist who entered before the change should be given the option to withdraw their work.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Art Zone, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline Tate

-Nods.- Thank you, Narn.

Oh, and that is a good idea. :3 Yes, I think that one will go over great.

Offline Hugo

Also, if a prize is changed mid-contest artist who entered before the change should be given the option to withdraw their work.
I definitely agree with this. If someone's life is so unstable that they suddenly HAVE to spend the prize money and replace it with a shitty prize or even a lower cash amount you're going to screw over everyone who joined because at that point you'd have conned them with false advertising.

Any contest holder who then uses an entry after changing the prize and not listening to a withdraw request should then be penalized for theft. In addition, I would also say that no entries should be loaded to ANY furc character until the contest is over.

Offline Zodiac

I still stick to the idea that whether or not art will be kept should be determined by the prize. People who actually care about their characters, have had them for a long time, and don't sell off their alts with characters on them, have a lot to worry about when it comes to the edits people DON'T make when they resell the work.

I, for example, would like to hold a contest sometime. And I plan on using something along the lines of either a life batwing or a life kitterwing for the contest prize. BUT, I am having a hard time deciding whether or not I REALLY want to do this because I do NOT want to have any of the artwork floating around still looking even somewhat like my characters. Most of them have pretty character specific remaps and designs that I have put a lot of effort into. Some of them I have had for years.

I think that if the contest holder makes it CLEAR IN THE BEGINNING OF THE CONTEST that the artwork is not to be redistributed, then losing the contest is at the risk of the person joining it. There should be some kind of "entry form" of sorts people could be filling out, line an online agreement to the rules and terms of the contest. At least, if I were to hold a contest I would do that. Cover all the details of prize, deadlines, conditions, ect, and by having read and signed to it you should have nothing to bitch about if you lose the contest and can't resell your work. It was the risk you took.

I don't think something like that woudl be a problem, at all. But, I also think personally that if that is how the contest will be run, the prize should be something WORTH it. IE: Life Kitterwings > 5 Spaces as a grand prize. But, even if the prize is small, if the person entering is AWARE they they are not allowed to resell the artwork and anything entered will be USED by the contest holder, then that is the risk they take by submitting an entry. If you don't like the risk, then don't enter. Simple as that.