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Author Topic: Done, thank you.  (Read 3657 times)

Offline Sedde

Done, thank you.
«: June 17, 2008, 05:28:57 PM»
Trying to improve my lines. This is my first port finished after I found out my lines are a problem, so...is this better?




(an example of what I was doing before)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 11:47:17 AM by Dwy »

 
        

Offline Hugo

Re: Portrait Pricing
«Reply #1: June 17, 2008, 11:13:41 PM»
I'd still say only 10 and that's for a few reasons.

* Ports are very tiny and restricted to Furc use only unlike a CG which can be used over and over all over the internet.
* I don't happen to think your quality is up to 25GD status. I love your shading, but the lines pinch me a bit.
* If you can find people willing to pay 25GD, more power to you, but the goal should be to be affordable and quality.
* Factor in the purchase of a portrait space and the total spent bumps up to 30 or 35GD for your buyer.

People toss GD around like pokemon cards, but it's actually money. Some people have electric bills of $30 dollars and I find electricity much more useful than a portrait.

Even ten seemed a bit much to me at first, but since it's been accepted as a standard price, it is what I use.

Offline Sedde

Re: Portrait Pricing
«Reply #2: June 18, 2008, 06:19:25 AM»
Even ten seemed a bit much to me at first, but since it's been accepted as a standard price, it is what I use.

You do know there are people that charge upwards of $50 for portraits, right? Considering the amount of time and  effort that I put into portraits, how much I care about the work I do, how professional almost always try to keep my services...That's damn sure worth more than not even a third of a tank of gas.

I have life expenses too. That's what I'm doing this for, now. My car's about to bite the dust, and I can't very well continue going to summer classes a half hour away, then working a half hour away every single weekday if I don't have a car.

Offline Wani

Re: Portrait Pricing
«Reply #3: June 18, 2008, 06:47:30 AM»
I think 20-25 i just perfect. :3
Your portraits are high in quality, and i lurf them to bits.
And not to mention i absolutely adore your shading style.

But what the.. 10? Lol is that guy high or something?
He's selling his own portraits for 10, and saying yours isn't even worth 10?
Does that mean he thinks his art is better than yours? That's kind of  :-X

But of course, you asked for an estimate, and he gave you one.
So can't really start bitching about it. I just think it's kind of silly to value someone elses,
who is obviously way more talented, portraits to be worth less. My oh my.  :D

*gropes Dwy*

And um. The person setting up the price isn't stupid, it's the people paying. ;)
I can easily see these going for ~$30
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 06:50:39 AM by Wani »
<3

Offline Goldrush

Re: Portrait Pricing
«Reply #4: June 18, 2008, 07:03:25 AM»
They're original, cute and shaded well. I think you got the price bang on.
SUP DAWG. WE HEARD YOU LIKE CARS SO WE PUT A CAR IN YO CAR SO YOU CAN DRIVE WHILE YOU DRIVE.

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Offline Hufflepuff

Re: Portrait Pricing
«Reply #5: June 18, 2008, 07:58:22 AM»
@Hugo: Who says ports are restricted for Furc use only? I've seen plenty of people use ports as their avatars on FAM and FAZ, and seeing as how there are a billion forums out there, they can be used all over the internet as well. Also, ever heard of the saying "Quality, not quantity"? I think that can be applied as far as the number of pixels go, as well.

I think adjusting price according to character difficulty is also a good idea for obvious reasons.

A portrait is forever, just like buying a life digo only better looking and completely tailored to you. You're not only paying for good art, you're paying for the artist's time and 5+ hours is one hell of a lot of time she's not going to be getting back.

Also, if the person is struggling to pay their bills I don't expect said person to be running around Furcadia looking for something to blow money on. I don't think that was really relevant of you to say, Hugo. If people have money they will spend it and if not they'll either save up if they want it badly enough or not buy it.
P.S. We would kill to have a 30$ electric bill. :P Thats freakin' cheap.

This isn't McDonalds, we don't have a dollar menu.
I think I got the point across.. May have worded it wrong. Damn I'm tired.
Edit: I think Dwy's prices are right, though some tweakage should be allowed for char design.

Offline Sync

Re: Portrait Pricing
«Reply #6: June 18, 2008, 04:32:13 PM»
i'd pay 20 personally.
the shading is really good, but 20% of the time i don't like the lineart.

Offline Sedde

Re: Portrait Pricing
«Reply #7: June 18, 2008, 05:25:56 PM»
Alrighty...Thank you, everybody, for your comments and (especially) your support. <3

I'll probably turn my port pricing into a more fluid form now, ranging from $20 to $30 or so depending on difficulty or what's being asked.

Might be taking a hiatus here for a while, too, to get better at lineart -- I didn't realize how common a complaint that was.

Offline Tate

Re: Portrait Pricing
«Reply #8: June 18, 2008, 05:38:20 PM»
I'd still say only 10 and that's for a few reasons.

* Ports are very tiny and restricted to Furc use only unlike a CG which can be used over and over all over the internet.
* I don't happen to think your quality is up to 25GD status. I love your shading, but the lines pinch me a bit.
* If you can find people willing to pay 25GD, more power to you, but the goal should be to be affordable and quality.
* Factor in the purchase of a portrait space and the total spent bumps up to 30 or 35GD for your buyer.

People toss GD around like pokemon cards, but it's actually money. Some people have electric bills of $30 dollars and I find electricity much more useful than a portrait.

Even ten seemed a bit much to me at first, but since it's been accepted as a standard price, it is what I use.

I love you so much, Hugo, but you know how I am on the issue. Art is a luxury, and should be treated as such. You don't need art-but you want it. Just like you don't need an ipod-but you want one. It's like water and diamonds. Water is the most valuable thing in the world--yet it is dirt cheap. Pretty, diamond rings are utterly useless in every way but for vanity--yet they are one of the most expensive things one can often find.

So, Dwy, charge as much as you will for your art--Not only is it yours to charge for, but it is a luxury that no one really needs, and thus have no right to complain. If they want it enough, this non-essential, vane thing in their lives, then they will pay for it.

Offline Tate

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #9: June 18, 2008, 11:01:51 PM»
I'd say my main problem with your lines would just be that the weight differences aren't too great. Try making larger weight differences in the same lines?

Otherwise, they're nice. o_o;

Offline Hugo

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #10: June 19, 2008, 01:00:31 PM»
Well you're not going to change my mind, but you did ask for our opinions so.. there you have it.

Offline Sedde

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #11: June 19, 2008, 01:26:57 PM»
Well you're not going to change my mind, but you did ask for our opinions so.. there you have it.

Since you were the first to criticize my lines on here, I'd appreciate it if you could help me with that. I changed the topic of this thread.

Offline Sync

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #12: June 19, 2008, 05:28:20 PM»
mrrr, the only thing that really bugs me about your lines is in the pixel port ones.
some are rather boring. while i love how you draw your ports, i just wouldn't want a port with a character doing nothing but staring out into space(no, i don't mean action pose, it's just a lot of your ports are generally the same).
this is just my opinion don't kill me plz.

Offline Sedde

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #13: June 19, 2008, 05:45:52 PM»
mrrr, the only thing that really bugs me about your lines is in the pixel port ones.
some are rather boring. while i love how you draw your ports, i just wouldn't want a port with a character doing nothing but staring out into space(no, i don't mean action pose, it's just a lot of your ports are generally the same).
this is just my opinion don't kill me plz.

Hm...Well, a lot of the time, people have no clue what pose they want, so I go hunting through stock photos to get some kind of idea.

Can you give me a specific example of that? Pretty much all of my most recent ports are interestingly-posed, that I can see. o_o; With the exception of maybe Loki, Marshall (who requested that specific pose), and the two ports I have in m DA gallery that I didn't do the lines for.

Offline Hugo

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #14: June 19, 2008, 08:39:26 PM»
Your traditional art seems fine (If that's what those first two are) but I dunno about the spiderman one. The use of color lines and black lines kind of throws me off versus you sticking to either black or colored.

Offline Sedde

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #15: June 19, 2008, 08:54:19 PM»
Your traditional art seems fine (If that's what those first two are) but I dunno about the spiderman one. The use of color lines and black lines kind of throws me off versus you sticking to either black or colored.

Okay...I was intending for that third piece to be more of a comicbook style, thus the use of black and color. The first two were done in Photoshop: no traditional work here.

If you're going to say that my lines "pinch you," please explain that, or try to help me, or something.

Offline Hugo

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #16: June 19, 2008, 10:39:22 PM»
No I mean like on the face you use black as a defining line but then on that one hand you use that blue color. It's kind of funky.

And it's only your port lines that pinch me. Post them back up so I can look and tell you what I see.

Offline Kratos

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #17: June 20, 2008, 03:28:21 AM»
agreeing with hugo..
only your port lines bother me - i think its the thickness, but im not really sure.
seconding request of reposting; i think your cg lines are fine.

Offline Sedde

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #18: June 20, 2008, 06:50:57 AM»
No I mean like on the face you use black as a defining line but then on that one hand you use that blue color. It's kind of funky.

And it's only your port lines that pinch me. Post them back up so I can look and tell you what I see.

That blue was the sketch underneath everything. I didn't line that hand yet, so I left that showing. Note that it was only a work-in-progress.

Reposted some ports.

Sesruc

Re: Portrait Lineart Help!
«Reply #19: June 20, 2008, 08:03:15 AM»


i think your coloring is amazing, i've always been a fan of how you do hair in particular
anyways
in my redlined image i've pointed out some things that stick out for me. the lines are jagged and thicker than they should be at some points.
this will help with jagged lines: http://derekyu.com/extras/pixel03.html
and this will help with cleaning up your outlines: http://derekyu.com/extras/pixel05.html

"Then clean up that outline! In particular, you want to trim away stray pixels (the outline should only be one pixel thick all the way through), get rid of any jaggies"

though don't hear me wrong. if your style is thick lines, you can always keep it that way.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 08:06:03 AM by Sesruc »

Offline Sedde

Re: Portrait Lineart Help!
«Reply #20: June 20, 2008, 09:04:19 AM»
I stopped doing the only-one-pixel-thick thing a whiiiile ago. I just didn't like how it looked, and if you zoom in on photoshop-smooth lines and junk, you can see that there's a "stair-stepping" effect in the pixels -- it's just that there's a darker gradient between them, not pure black. I've been trying to create that same effect with my coloring for a long time, making it more smooth.

Maybe I should just start using that darkest shade, not pure black, where the stair-stepping thing happens?

Offline Sync

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #21: June 20, 2008, 10:13:38 AM»
mrrr, the only thing that really bugs me about your lines is in the pixel port ones.
some are rather boring. while i love how you draw your ports, i just wouldn't want a port with a character doing nothing but staring out into space(no, i don't mean action pose, it's just a lot of your ports are generally the same).
this is just my opinion don't kill me plz.

Hm...Well, a lot of the time, people have no clue what pose they want, so I go hunting through stock photos to get some kind of idea.

Can you give me a specific example of that? Pretty much all of my most recent ports are interestingly-posed, that I can see. o_o; With the exception of maybe Loki, Marshall (who requested that specific pose), and the two ports I have in m DA gallery that I didn't do the lines for.

well like this bunch:
http://www.furcartzone.com/gallery/5/107_18_06_08_5_58_44_3.jpg
http://www.furcartzone.com/gallery/0/107_20_12_07_2_37_59_0.jpg
http://www.furcartzone.com/gallery/0/107_20_12_07_2_39_57_0.jpg
http://www.furcartzone.com/gallery/0/107_20_12_07_2_41_59_0.jpg
http://www.furcartzone.com/gallery/0/107_20_12_07_2_44_50_0.jpg
http://www.furcartzone.com/gallery/0/107_20_12_07_2_43_45_4.jpg

i'm not saying these are bad in anyway, but it's just they're all basically doing the exact same thing.

yeah you're recent ports have been nicely done, but i'd personally need mores examples of it in even digital art. but that's just me.

Offline Sedde

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #22: June 20, 2008, 11:00:59 AM»
i'm not saying these are bad in anyway, but it's just they're all basically doing the exact same thing.

yeah you're recent ports have been nicely done, but i'd personally need mores examples of it in even digital art. but that's just me.

There's a reason I don't really take digital art commissions... :P I like to do at least slightly different poses for everything -- the fact that the demeanor of characters doesn't vary much makes it difficult. Amanda, for example, just seemed very cute. I wouldn't want her doing some wild, crazy, outgoing pose, because it wouldn't fit her character.

I see what you mean, I suppose, but I don't think that all of those portraits are the same, at all. Sedde's was more for my own practice, I never meant for that to be anything special. xP If I'd shown more in Boom's port, you'd see that his arms were crossed and stuff.

I tend to put more emphasis on facial expressions and slight differences in angles, than anything else.

BASICALLY I guess what I'm trying to say is I like subtle differences. :P

Do you think I should start switching up the light source and stuff too? That's something I was considering trying.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 11:04:59 AM by Dwy »

Offline Sync

Re: Lineart Help!
«Reply #23: June 20, 2008, 11:57:48 AM»
Do you think I should start switching up the light source and stuff too? That's something I was considering trying.
i think that's a fantastic idea. would add a lot more variety.

Sesruc

Re: Portrait Lineart Help!
«Reply #24: June 20, 2008, 01:28:47 PM»
I stopped doing the only-one-pixel-thick thing a whiiiile ago. I just didn't like how it looked, and if you zoom in on photoshop-smooth lines and junk, you can see that there's a "stair-stepping" effect in the pixels -- it's just that there's a darker gradient between them, not pure black. I've been trying to create that same effect with my coloring for a long time, making it more smooth.

Maybe I should just start using that darkest shade, not pure black, where the stair-stepping thing happens?

yes, there is a stair stepping sort of thing going on in those kind of lines.
and yes, i think it would be better to try using different shades instead of black in that sort of thing. if you zoom in photoshop, those stair step thingies are different colors. pure black like that doesn't make it seem too smooth, but rather clunky and not too appealing.

what you're trying to do is called anti-aliasing and in my opinion, it's hard to do especially when you have such a limited palette. i'd be amazed if someone could pull it off completely. maybe this will help you: http://www.derekyu.com/extras/pixel10.html

 

anything