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Author Topic: Commisioning Limitations/ Is the Artist an Art Theft without realizing it?  (Read 3416 times)

Offline Sapphirus

I took time and thought to myself lately, which was kinda too late and realized that most commisioners commision artists using pic references that's don't belong to them; made from another artist. My friend Syrae-Universe brought this to my attention, since I have been doing commisions based of pic references given to me to complete the artworks and ports for years now.

Yesturday I had/made sure to ask permission to do a commision of a character that someone was using on Furcadia that the artist had no idea about. The commisioner (Tonou Tamekaze) gave me pics to use for the port, that lead to the guy's DA deviaiton. It was some sort of Naruto Oc made for the person's personal Manga and ironicly he allowed me to do the commision for the guy on Furcadia with no problem at all, though it was kinda wrong for me to get profit for doing a port of someone elses character. It was an awkward situation I dealt/even been in indeed.

My point is, is it really considered art theft is we do ports from references that the commisioners give to use to use, and that they're based off of pics another artist created?

I know that you're suppose to find those artists and ask their permission but the people who use them on their freewebs and character info don't provide the info to get to them unfortunately.

I just do the art I'm commisioned to do, not claiming it as my own, but doing it for the person,

What do you guys think of this?

It's like there's no point of doing commisions at all since 80-90% of people on Furcadia use pics from another source to use as their characters. Some aren't good enough with art so they use that method instead.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 08:55:08 PM by Sapphirus »

 
        

Offline Azula

Quote
It's like there's no point of doing commisions at all since 80-90% of people on Furcadia use pics from another source to use as their characters. Some aren't good enough with art so they use that method instead.

is that a real statistic or are you just bullshitting?

Offline La-la

Quote
It's like there's no point of doing commisions at all since 80-90% of people on Furcadia use pics from another source to use as their characters. Some aren't good enough with art so they use that method instead.

is that a real statistic or are you just bullshitting?

Bullshitting.

Offline Narnia

Quote
It's like there's no point of doing commisions at all since 80-90% of people on Furcadia use pics from another source to use as their characters. Some aren't good enough with art so they use that method instead.

is that a real statistic or are you just bullshitting?

99% of all statistics are made up.

Your combining multiple ideas here.

Am I telling you to draw me a character that I do not own the copyright too? If yes, there might be a problem.

Am I showing you a picture of someone's copyrighted character and saying, "mine looks something like this"? If yes, then there is no problem. Referencing is how art is done. If I can't explain how my character looks in my mind, then why shouldn't I be allowed to show you a picture which explains it better. My character is still different. I'm just telling the artist what my character should kind of look like.

Am I showing you a picture of MY character previously done by an artist? If yes, then there is no problem particularly if I bought the art. The character is copyright to me and if I purchased the art, I purchased the rights to show that art how I please.

So honestly, I'm not sure where you are going with this topic.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Art Zone, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline sarragh

Quote
it was kinda wrong for me to get profit for doing a port of someone elses character. It was an awkward situation I dealt/even been in indeed.

i think it is wrong.

Why did you agree to it?

Offline Azula

i honestly see no problem in someone using other ways than art or descriptions to express their character. just as you said, some aren't good enough, so they have to resort to that method. if i weren't decent at art, it's what i'd do to get references of my character, and then i'd be able to use said references for myself, for MY character.

and in b4 "from what i've been commissioned for" because honestly, if that's that the case, from what I'VE seen, everyone has their own art as references for their own characters.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 10:24:25 PM by Worm »

Offline sarragh

I don't think she was talking about "this is what my character is LIKE", from the sounds of it. It was "This is the character I WANT".

I, personally, have no problems with fan-BASED characters. After all, one of my favourite alts is "Betelgeuse" and designed specifically from that story, but the idea was that this furc guy said that this original character from this fan-based comic is what he was going to be playing.

I'm uncomfortable with that. Props for asking, though.

Offline Sapphirus

Quote
it was kinda wrong for me to get profit for doing a port of someone elses character. It was an awkward situation I dealt/even been in indeed.

i think it is wrong.

Why did you agree to it?


Well he said "it's ok, I don't mind at all xD", so I just told him after that i'd never do a commision for that guy again. I told him about Furcadia and the anime fandoms and such. Telling him the guy already disclamed the character as his own.


Offline sarragh

Quote
it was kinda wrong for me to get profit for doing a port of someone elses character. It was an awkward situation I dealt/even been in indeed.

i think it is wrong.

Why did you agree to it?

Telling him the guy already disclamed the character as his own.




.. yeah I woulda been like "You're retarded. tata."

Offline Azula

i really don't see what's wrong with it, unless he's claiming the character is his, and not the other's. and since apparently he did claim it as his own, then it's just... retarded.

jesus christ stop posting. #SI

Offline Sapphirus

Quote
It's like there's no point of doing commisions at all since 80-90% of people on Furcadia use pics from another source to use as their characters. Some aren't good enough with art so they use that method instead.

is that a real statistic or are you just bullshitting?

99% of all statistics are made up.

Your combining multiple ideas here.

Am I telling you to draw me a character that I do not own the copyright too? If yes, there might be a problem.

Am I showing you a picture of someone's copyrighted character and saying, "mine looks something like this"? If yes, then there is no problem. Referencing is how art is done. If I can't explain how my character looks in my mind, then why shouldn't I be allowed to show you a picture which explains it better. My character is still different. I'm just telling the artist what my character should kind of look like.

Am I showing you a picture of MY character previously done by an artist? If yes, then there is no problem particularly if I bought the art. The character is copyright to me and if I purchased the art, I purchased the rights to show that art how I please.

So honestly, I'm not sure where you are going with this topic.

Well all I want to know is that is an Artist an art theif for using/making ports based off of someone elses artwork that the commisioner's using for their character. I was seeing if anyone else dealt with these same situations.

It's just my statistic in FurN, pretty much almost all the characters I see or be commsioned from are all using references and pics that don't belong to them but another artist of some sort, or Googled the image to post on their freewebs.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 10:44:20 PM by Sapphirus »

Offline Azula

so to come up with said statistics did you do heavy research and calculate everything? or are you just guessing? stop assuming that the commissions you get are what everyone else gets. statistics aren't opinions, and that's what you're basing your "statistics" off of. from what you've seen.

Offline Sapphirus

so to come up with said statistics did you do heavy research and calculate everything? or are you just guessing? stop assuming that the commissions you get are what everyone else gets. statistics aren't opinions, and that's what you're basing your "statistics" off of. from what you've seen.

Guessing I'll agree on, sorry for getting that mixed up with statistics.
It's from what I've seen in FurN from hanging around it/and dreams for so long.

Thanks for clearing me up on that mistake.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 10:53:11 PM by Sapphirus »

Offline Azula

and taking that into account, do you really think that everywhere else is like furn? maybe getting out of the furn cafe and bitching about yiff would do some good for your opinion.

Offline Jenni

yeah, that "statistic" is so off. i see you in tgt, and if you actually clicked around, you'll see the majority of characters using custom drawn art as opposed to using anime or generic pictures from deviantart. the only ones who use that kind of crap are the noobs. most of these people don't even commission people, because obviously they cannot afford custom pictures or have enough talent to draw one themselves. now, if i was in this situation, i wouldn't give a fuck. i'm getting money. i'm not going to care about any copyright boundaries, because it's really the commissioner's job to give a shit. i'm the mindless drone of an artist who will do anything so long it means adding to my ever expanding wallet. if shit flew my way, i'd redirect it to the one that commissioned me. simple.

Offline Sapphirus

and taking that into account, do you really think that everywhere else is like furn? maybe getting out of the furn cafe and bitching about yiff would do some good for your opinion.


I hang in other places too, such as AI, Hawthron occasionally, Naia, etc. So Yes, I observe my surrounding carefully and auto-click people.

As for the FurN thing, the Cafe's my hang-spot, we like to have fun with ranting on about stuff that makes sense in the end. Troll-based spot in a way, like where you hang out I presume?

Offline Azula

i don't know who this "we" is you're talking about, but i'm pretty sure you're alone in it, because no one really seems to really like you. you toss around "troll" so horribly, it's not even funny. the little shithole i hang out at is a "noob" breeding ground where people come to beg for shit because god forbid we have nice names and digos.

you honestly can't really tell me that "80-90%" of people in AI use other things as refs that isn't their own art and descriptions to express their character, because you're never in AI. (and believe me, i know.. ;)) you're stuck in furn bitching about the very thing furn is about, which is rather contradicting.

if you actually "observe (your) surrounding(s) carefully," you'd see that the people with original character designs, fan-based and actual original characters, really do use their own refs, regardless of how shitty the art is, because they actually give a damn about their character, and don't need to show off how big some 7 foot steed's cock is in a picture form that they didn't even create.

because someone pointed this out to me: to answer your question "Is the Artist an Art Theft without realizing it?" he's not even an ARTIST let alone an art thief. he's a character thief.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 12:41:33 AM by Worm »

Offline Sapphirus

i don't know who this "we" is you're talking about, but i'm pretty sure you're alone in it, because no one really seems to really like you. you toss around "troll" so horribly, it's not even funny. the little shithole i hang out at is a "noob" breeding ground where people come to beg for shit because god forbid we have nice names and digos.

you honestly can't really tell me that "80-90%" of people in AI use other things as refs that isn't their own art and descriptions to express their character, because you're never in AI. (and believe me, i know.. ;)) you're stuck in furn bitching about the very thing furn is about, which is rather contradicting.

if you actually "observe (your) surrounding(s) carefully," you'd see that the people with original character designs, fan-based and actual original characters, really do use their own refs, regardless of how shitty the art is, because they actually give a damn about their character, and don't need to show off how big some 7 foot steed's cock is in a picture form that they didn't even create.

because someone pointed this out to me: to answer your question "Is the Artist an Art Theft without realizing it?" he's not even an ARTIST let alone an art thief. he's a character thief.

I could care less about what you think about me really, stay on the subject of the thread tyvm.

Offline Azula

i was only replying to you. and sorry to say, you were the one getting off topic. this topic is dumb and pointless anyway.

Offline Sapphirus

i was only replying to you. and sorry to say, you were the one getting off topic. this topic is dumb and pointless anyway.

Actually, you've made the whole thing pointless with the TL;DR paragraphs, I make threads to see peoples POV on artistic situations like my other threads.

Everything's trolling with you, which is obvious.

It's most likely to get locked now because of you, which is a good idea since I got all the info I needed.

Offline Azula

it was pointless to begin with. regardless of what you think of me, i can be serious at times, as i usually am. and i am right now. if you don't believe me, then that's fine, because it only proves your ignorance and stupidity.

it's gonna get locked alright, but not because i turned it into a "trolling" thread, but because of your inability to comprehend anything and TL;DR my valid points and accused me of trolling you, in which i did not!

Offline Sapphirus

it was pointless to begin with. regardless of what you think of me, i can be serious at times, as i usually am. and i am right now. if you don't believe me, then that's fine, because it only proves your ignorance and stupidity.

it's gonna get locked alright, but not because i turned it into a "trolling" thread, but because of your inability to comprehend anything.

Actually, after I agreed with the mistake you corrected for me for and going on with other things, you mustered up another situation so you can plant it into a flame.

For real, you don't like to let things go. It's never enough unless you leave a thread with bawwing and flames.

Ohyes, I'm sure you can reallllly be serious.

Offline Azula

well, excuuuuuuuuse me, princess, if i'm trying to disprove your opinion. this is an in-depth thread, after all, isn't it?

and i'm sorry if you think i'm this dumbass troll 24/7... i can assure you that i'm not, but not like you'd believe me, anyway.

Offline Sapphirus

well, excuuuuuuuuse me, princess, if i'm trying to disprove your opinion. this is an in-depth thread, after all, isn't it?


Yes yes ...*yawn*

This is the only thread I ever had where it turned into a tragedy, what a coincidence (or not). As my others aren't being flamed at at all, rather intelligent thread where better/mature people commented it without getting the influuence to start something.

Going to bed now, too sleepy to deal with this for now.....
*hopes for lock*

Offline Azula

For real, you don't like to let things go. It's never enough unless you leave a thread with bawwing and flames.

 

anything