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Author Topic: Accidental Theft?  (Read 2454 times)

Offline Hugo

Accidental Theft?
«: July 17, 2008, 07:53:07 PM»
There was a topic similar to this one which I see was locked since it became petty. I really do want to discuss it though, so I hope I can outline the terms in a way no one will fight over.

Here we go:

You receive a commission from someone who gives you a photo or a drawn piece and either tells you to remap it for them or draw a new piece using it as the base for the character. I don't mean someone saying "The hair is like this" for visual reference, I'm saying someone who gives you a picture and says: This is the character.

Most of the time you can tell the characters are either taken out of an artist's personal gallery or taken from webcomics and such.

Personally, I get annoyed when someone comes to me asking me to remap an image that clearly is not theirs. Or if they give me a Doushinji (Japanese fanmade) anime style picture and says that is their reference when clearly the image is not theirs nor is the character.

We've hit a period where many great artists are being found out as tracers and many commissioners are being found out as scam artists. Where do you stand on this issue?

---

So, here are my questions about it since I've encountered this dilemma a few times in-game:

* Is it wrong for an artist to profit off of these people's characters (or to be remapping photos and images that don't belong to the commissioner)?
* Should commissioners be required to obtain permission before coming to you?
* Does this happen to you often or has it ever?

---

Keep the discussion nice. I want to see what people think and why they think it.

 
        

Offline Sapphirus

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #1: July 17, 2008, 07:55:44 PM»
ILU Hugo, thanks for posting this up <3333

70% of the commisions I get on Furcadia are based off of references people give me of their character made by another artist. The rest are made by them by attempt. So I wondered if I was an art theif without realizing it. Contacting the original artists isn't an easy task all the time.

I hope to see more interesting feedback on this topic myself.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 08:03:57 PM by Sapphirus »

Offline Zim

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #2: July 17, 2008, 08:11:16 PM»
* Is it wrong for an artist to profit off of these people's characters (or to be remapping photos and images that don't belong to the commissioner)?

Yes. If it's a public domain photo, however, I offer to remap it for free, but only if the photograph is of whoever the alt is based off of. For example, if someone had the alt Brad Pitt, I'd remap a public domain photo of Brad Pitt for them to use as a portrait, without charge. I do the same for cartoon screenshots, too. As long as it's been released publicly, is not fanart/private art, I will do it for free. The best example I can come up with for a situation involving that would be for the alt Feral. The owner came to me and asked if I could remap a screenshot of the character Feral from Swat Katts for her. I didn't see a problem with it, since I was NOT charging, and it was, as I said, for public use. It would be no different than using it as a forum icon, since it's official art, and the companies have made it clear many times before that as long as no profit is being made, it's all golden.

* Should commissioners be required to obtain permission before coming to you?

Very much so. It's no different than finding a nice fanart that you'd like to use as a portrait. Always, always, ALWAYS ask permission first. Again, the only exceptions I make personally are public domain photographs and cartoon screenshots.

* Does this happen to you often or has it ever?

I have only gotten reference pictures or art drawn of the character, for the character, so no.



I really can't stress asking permission enough, though. It's always so sad to see beautiful art ripped from places like dA and made into portraits without the artists' knowledge.

Offline Lord

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #3: July 17, 2008, 08:32:27 PM»
* Is it wrong for an artist to profit off of these people's characters (or to be remapping photos and images that don't belong to the commissioner)?

making profit off of it, yes, its not theirs, they did not draw it, they have no business changing it and saying "gimmie money" for it. if it is done for free, proper permission is asked and credit given, i dont see why it would be a problem.

* Should commissioners be required to obtain permission before coming to you?

yes, yes, yes, and yes. if they handed you a picture that looks like they might have taken/drawn, and it is made into a portrait, i believe it will then be YOUR fault for not making sure that it was not being ripped from someone.

* Does this happen to you often or has it ever? during my name-your-price deal, i had someone ask me to trace a photo for her. she claimed it to not be copyrighted, and it would be completely ok, but it looked like it was on some sort of fashion magazine or w/e. i felt uncomfortable even thinking about tracing it, so i tried referencing. i eventually greatly disliked the picture in general, so i told her that i would not be able to do it, and that i was sure someone else would gladly do it for her.

Sesruc

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #4: July 17, 2008, 09:10:14 PM»
* Is it wrong for an artist to profit off of these people's characters (or to be remapping photos and images that don't belong to the commissioner)?

if an artist remaps any sort of art (drawings and photos alike) and uploads it to something like dA or FAZ without posting the reference picture, is wrong. making a profit off of remapping the pictures and at the same time uploading and claiming you did it yourself by not posting the ref picture is also wrong.

* Should commissioners be required to obtain permission before coming to you?

depends on what image their using.

* Does this happen to you often or has it ever?

never happened to me because i can't make ports #SA

Offline MT

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Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #5: July 17, 2008, 11:30:33 PM»
* Is it wrong for an artist to profit off of these people's characters (or to be remapping photos and images that don't belong to the commissioner)?

I think it's wrong, and it doesn't do much to show the commissioner's originality. I suppose it's alright if they have permission from the original artist to use the picture as a reference, but I'd still find it sort of lazy and cheap


* Should commissioners be required to obtain permission before coming to you?

Yes, I think they should, but it depends on the picture they're using.

* Does this happen to you often or has it ever?

Actually, it just happened to me and I'm pretty sure it's the same person who commissioned sapphirus. I asked them where they got the pic and he said he just took it off of someone's DA. I told him that before he was to commission me, he needs permission from the original artist before I could start on it. I still haven't heard anything from him <_<

Offline Sapphirus

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #6: July 18, 2008, 01:28:07 AM»
* Is it wrong for an artist to profit off of these people's characters (or to be remapping photos and images that don't belong to the commissioner)?

I think it's wrong, and it doesn't do much to show the commissioner's originality. I suppose it's alright if they have permission from the original artist to use the picture as a reference, but I'd still find it sort of lazy and cheap


* Should commissioners be required to obtain permission before coming to you?

Yes, I think they should, but it depends on the picture they're using.

* Does this happen to you often or has it ever?

Actually, it just happened to me and I'm pretty sure it's the same person who commissioned sapphirus. I asked them where they got the pic and he said he just took it off of someone's DA. I told him that before he was to commission me, he needs permission from the original artist before I could start on it. I still haven't heard anything from him <_<

Was his name Tonou Kamekaze? I got permission from the original artist if it was him. The artist happily allowed me to be commisioned for it ._.;

Offline Skink

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #7: July 27, 2008, 08:00:39 AM»
* Is it wrong for an artist to profit off of these people's characters (or to be remapping photos and images that don't belong to the commissioner)?

I can agree with Youlanda in saying it's not wrong to profit if you're charging for labor, but if you still even charge or not, that's a matter of opinion surrounding yourself. Making a photo or screenshot remap is not that hard, some people might not want to bother themselves charging. Especially since there ARE people who think it's wrong.

* Should commissioners be required to obtain permission before coming to you?
Yes. And they should have proof for you and everyone else that they do, too.

* Does this happen to you often or has it ever?
I've been asked to do something similar, reference a picture by another artist to a t, only make it remapping pixels. Which I refused. That's me ripping the artist off, especially since they wanted me to draw the whole thing myself exactly like the picture, not just change it to remap.

Offline Sabaton

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #8: July 30, 2008, 07:23:52 AM»
Most of the time you can tell the characters are either taken out of an artist's personal gallery or taken from webcomics and such.

-Another thing I see is people taking other character's art and saying, 'This is my character, draw it.'
Is it considered accidental theft if an artist makes a port or art piece based on and looking exactly like the original person's actual character art that was taken and used by someone else, to the tee, without any credit given or permission asked?

I've had some who say yes, and some who say no.

Yes, because it's someone else's created design and art piece that they paid money for, only to have it ripped. And for the simple fact that no permission to take or use the art piece for any kind of ref was given.

No, because there's really no originality left in the world. If you've got a character design, there's always another person who has almost the exact same one. And also because things on the internet, to some, are considered 'free-game' if you're posting them for the world to see.
Sarcasm is the body's natural defense against stupid.


Offline Glory

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #9: August 04, 2008, 01:43:55 AM»
* Is it wrong for an artist to profit off of these people's characters (or to be remapping photos and images that don't belong to the commissioner)?

If its making a exact remap of a photo, actual sequence of the animation and/or manga, and so on, then yes. Absolutely.

However! If not, I'd have to really say no. We're not being paid to make up this character and nor are we the ones taking credit for its creation. We're in short being paid for our artistic ability. Not to create or rip a already existing character design and sell it off in our own art style.

* Should commissioners be required to obtain permission before coming to you?


If its a character from a anime and/or manga then, probably I would not require it as its hard to learn Japanese just to obtain credit (or to contact the licenser for its localization).

If I am aware its not their character, I will definitely be noting the artist myself so I can for sure have solid proof and know I am not being lied to. So yes they should, but even if they do or don't I'd use my ability to its extent to find and note the artist before taking up the work.

* Does this happen to you often or has it ever?


Closest I've gotten is this...
I've been told by someone to try and copy someones style, and told them no because I am not a forger (much face palming that someone outright was telling me to feign someone elses style). It was much laughing looking back at it, as much as I was ticked at them for not appriciating my own style.

Offline Goldrush

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #10: August 06, 2008, 09:27:25 PM»
People don't hesitate to reference high traffic characters like Anime, Disney stuff. Dunno if that stuff's copyrighted.
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Offline Zim

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #11: August 06, 2008, 09:38:49 PM»
People don't hesitate to reference high traffic characters like Anime, Disney stuff. Dunno if that stuff's copyrighted.

It is, but it MAY be covered under Creative Commons (Youlanda or Narnia would probably know better than I do).

Most of the time though, creators don't mind the use of high-traffic characters as long as they're not for commercial use (LOL I PUT MICKEY ON T-SHIRTS AND SELL IT LIKE I CREATED IT LOL).

They don't seem to mind fanart and the like, since I've never seen like, a deviant artist getting sued by Disney or anything over drawing their character as part of a commission.

Offline Goldrush

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #12: August 07, 2008, 07:38:02 PM»
Yeah, that's true, so maybe it would be acceptable to reference a low traffic, roleplaying character in a non-profitable way. I'm on the fence with this topic.
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Offline Heimdall

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #13: September 29, 2008, 04:03:46 PM»
Quick note: I think that making and selling fursuits of Disney characters is SERIOUS BUSINESS. Disney cracks down on it, or so I've heard on fursuit comms. I'm not sure if they feel the same about 2D art or if it's just gone mostly under the radar.

Quote
* Should commissioners be required to obtain permission before coming to you?

The issue here is how do you know they got permission? They could well be lying to you and all, sadly. That's why I never directly copy things--only reference character details and stuff. Yeah, it's not your fault if you get lied to, but I'd still rather not get tangled up in that malarky. ><

Offline Archimedes

Re: Accidental Theft?
«Reply #14: October 02, 2008, 06:14:42 PM»
* Is it wrong for an artist to profit off of these people's characters (or to be remapping photos and images that don't belong to the commissioner)?

If it's a public domain photo it doesn't much matter, but it's sort of childish to just remap an anime portrait and honestly I wouldn't lower myself to doing a commission like that unless that $15 was all that stood between me and certain death. If you take the photo or image and redraw it and make it your own that's a different matter, but if you're just remapping an anime image or some such then... it's not worth the commission, in my opinion. It makes the artist look bad.

* Should commissioners be required to obtain permission before coming to you?

Yes. If they want us to do something like that for them? Then it's up to them to obtain permission and proof of that permission for us, why should we have to run around doing legwork for them? Unless you wanted to charge extra for it...

* Does this happen to you often or has it ever?

Never happened to me, but then again I'm not big in the patching / ports / commissions world.
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