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Author Topic: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(  (Read 4111 times)

Offline Sedde

Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«: August 08, 2008, 09:12:38 AM»
Just noticing more and more well-known artists being outed for tracing or referencing without credit...

How many more of the greats will fall? It's like a plague or something. :(

This is basically just a thread to chitchat about this -- please no flaming or anything.

 
        

Offline sarragh

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #1: August 08, 2008, 09:29:07 AM»
You're next, Dwy. You're next.

Offline Sedde

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #2: August 08, 2008, 09:30:09 AM»
NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO

But for reals, I always give credit where credit is due. xP

Offline sarragh

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #3: August 08, 2008, 09:35:46 AM»
XD I know. I don't assume for a minute you've ever traced. What amazes me most is how people.. catch it. Maybe I just don't look at art enough to see similarities, or I don't recall things well enough, but I could never just look at someone's gallery and say "Yep. This is traced." I just.. don't see it until someone else goes "Uh, Cletus. Look harder."

Offline Sedde

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #4: August 08, 2008, 09:40:06 AM»
OHmygosh, I'm the same way. I have no clue how people find this stuff. o_o

I swear there's, like, artist hunters...that spend hours a day painstakingly searching the internet for similarities to images in a "suspicious" gallery. >_>

Makes me paranoid.

Maeve

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #5: August 08, 2008, 09:53:23 AM»
they went to denmark

Offline Sedde

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #6: August 08, 2008, 09:57:51 AM»
What's in Denmark?

Sesruc

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #7: August 08, 2008, 10:03:55 AM»
i barely spend two seconds thinking whether or not it looks like someone traces lol

sometimes it's painstakingly obvious
it's ridiculous
you just can't have some super pretty face one day and the next have some fugly one and call it experimenting (which is a good excuse *cough*)

but sometimes i just run into images out of chance and bookmark them because i swear i saw a port that looked just like it


a lot of tracers are just ignorant
i mean srsly
wth would you trace a stock photo that pops up on the first page of search..
because you know, no one else would search for stock photos too.

Offline Sedde

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #8: August 08, 2008, 10:15:52 AM»
sometimes it's painstakingly obvious
it's ridiculous
you just can't have some super pretty face one day and the next have some fugly one and call it experimenting (which is a good excuse *cough*)

but sometimes i just run into images out of chance and bookmark them because i swear i saw a port that looked just like it


a lot of tracers are just ignorant
i mean srsly
wth would you trace a stock photo that pops up on the first page of search..
because you know, no one else would search for stock photos too.

That's stupid. :( Yeah, experimenting is a good excuse...but if you've got at least SOME things that you like to do the same way every time, why wouldn't those things carry over at least a little to other dabblings? And tracing off something that's well-known is just DUMB. More often than not I end up using pictures of my FRIENDS on Facebook as inspiration, haha!

Offline Azula

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #9: August 08, 2008, 10:22:03 AM»
they're hiding behind the lying artists. duh.

but whatever happened to the "good" artists' ability to keep up the quality of their artwork?

Offline Sedde

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #10: August 08, 2008, 10:23:19 AM»
but whatever happened to the "good" artists' ability to keep up the quality of their artwork?

Hmmmmmmm...Not sure I know what you're talking about. o_o (I'm bored at work if you couldn't tell, lul.)

Offline Hugo

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #11: August 08, 2008, 10:25:33 AM»
I think everyone's under suspicion nowadays to be honest. Finch and Havoc even made a thread about me last year, though I don't think they were being serious. They had claimed I copied someone's port though as it turned out, none of the lines matched up and the poses weren't even the same.

It doesn't pay to trace; literally. No one will commission you if you're a thief, even if you clean your act up later.

I said this in the Mask thread: I think the 'good' artists who get found out as thieves are just people who were so desperate to get popular in the art community that they took shortcuts.

It's wrong and it's very stupid. It just goes to show what people will do to get a little bit of attention. And the worst part of it is that it actually seems to work. When these artists are proven tracers with actual proof they still have people rushing in to defend them.

@Taylor: I was telling Morgan the other day that some artists who draw portraits and get popular keep making portraits that get worse in quality until people are overpaying for beginner-level art. It seems the greater the popularity, the less an artist thinks they have to do in the way of effort.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 10:27:13 AM by Hugo »

Maeve

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #12: August 08, 2008, 10:26:46 AM»
What's in Denmark?

WELL YOU SEE.
in denmark they dont use internet
(not really, but I did have a foreign
exchange student at my school for
a while who was like people in denmark
dont use the internet so much lolololololol)

>:C

so all the good artist go there just
to hide away and let all the art thieves
take over, pretty simple.

Offline Azula

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #13: August 08, 2008, 10:27:53 AM»
but whatever happened to the "good" artists' ability to keep up the quality of their artwork?

Hmmmmmmm...Not sure I know what you're talking about. o_o (I'm bored at work if you couldn't tell, lul.)

sometimes when i'm browsing dA, i see all of these good artists whose quality just kind of.. deteriorated.

dunno if it's just me.

Offline Sedde

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #14: August 08, 2008, 10:32:59 AM»
sometimes when i'm browsing dA, i see all of these good artists whose quality just kind of.. deteriorated.

dunno if it's just me.

...Not at all. I've been watching the decline and mutation of someone I used to do collabs with, and it's just...depressing. :\ Like, where did you go wrong, hun? Oh well, I guess.

I think everyone's under suspicion nowadays to be honest. Finch and Havoc even made a thread about me last year, though I don't think they were being serious. They had claimed I copied someone's port though as it turned out, none of the lines matched up and the poses weren't even the same.

I said this in the Mask thread: I think the 'good' artists who get found out as thieves are just people who were so desperate to get popular in the art community that they took shortcuts.

Hah, YOU were under the scope? xD I KNOW you don't trace, that's silly.

As for the other part...I wanna just smack all the people that think tracing will get them places, and tell them that if they REALLY want to get popular quick, all they have to do is one of two things:
1. Sex
2. Fan art

I mean, really. Look at the most popular deviations ever submitted on DA. That tells the story by itself.

Offline Feri

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #15: August 08, 2008, 01:23:22 PM»
I personally think of the art alerts as more of a... warning.... than what it seems to have become, which is kind of a witch hunt to take everyone down..... ]:

More and more people are posting stuff like "I saw something similar to this port. I won't say who it is and I won't talk to them about it, BUT THIS PERSON IS A THIEF, I JUST KNOW IT!" And often they're NOT a thief and sooooooooometimes they are but it really seems like either way people are taking it too seriously.

In fact the board has me so paranoid that every time I make a background just by googling a very generic image (my latest was "shower" and I remapped it) I say that I googled it just in case someone is like, I'VE SEEN THAT PHOTO OF A SHOWER BEFORE!

So I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think the art alerts should be used to say anything BAD about the artist! If the poor thing felt the need to trace, and they were caught, the fact that no one will commission them (and if they do, very skeptically) and that their reputation as an artist is ruined shouldn't change who they are as a person.............




(But at the same time, I find myself hating Comico without ever talking to her. Eek.)

Offline Jenni

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #16: August 08, 2008, 02:03:43 PM»
as far as the artists go, the only one who really fought back to their tracing accusations was detoxsun. they admitted it, moved on and now submit their own art as opposed to the previous.

i agree with feri. esp that 'i'm not accusing them of theft' part they put into the posts, when by making the post you kinda are making it an accusation. and half the time they don't even talk to the person, and if maybe they did they'd realize the portrait was maybe a freebie or drawn by themselves??


it is kind of sad because our latest was my friend, and it seems she felt sort of forced off the internet. she is an absolutely awesome person though and i don't think of her any differently. #SO

Erde

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #17: August 08, 2008, 02:35:48 PM»
it is bad that people commit these crimes, but most of them are legit people who are only caught with one or two traced pieces. not only that, but as jenni said a lot of people just post in art alerts before researching what they're posting. i've seen about 5 posts of people wondering if it's theft when it's just a free port.

i think when we find someone who is stealing art, we calmly confront them. it seems like most people just badger them, "HEY YOU'RE AN ART THIEF GET OUT OF HERE, THIEF." it's like stealing in zelda: link's awakening. you steal one thing and get called THIEF throughout the entire game.

so maybe instead of people stop stealing, since that is inevitable, we lighten up on them when they do. if they deny it, there's no reason to get up in their face. make the point, if they still deny it, just report it to whoever needs to hear about it.

Offline kotzen

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #18: August 08, 2008, 02:46:00 PM»
it seems like a lot can be resolved if we talk with the artist about it first.
there's no reason to pour tar and feathers on them and throw stones.

i know exactly what you're talking about, feri.
i find myself changing my shit around since i'm afraid someone will call me out for 'pose snatching' or something similar.

Offline Tonks

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #19: August 08, 2008, 03:30:05 PM»
but whatever happened to the "good" artists' ability to keep up the quality of their artwork?

Hmmmmmmm...Not sure I know what you're talking about. o_o (I'm bored at work if you couldn't tell, lul.)

sometimes when i'm browsing dA, i see all of these good artists whose quality just kind of.. deteriorated.

dunno if it's just me.
I notice that a lot too. Lately a certain one in particular though. ]: Shame since it's probably /the/ most popular artist on Furc, but.

I see a lot of skills bouncing up and down, I notice a lot of it is commissions are turning out really bad, personal art is turning out flawless. Lazy artists want their personal pieces to be amazing, so they spend hours working on it, but if it's not for them, they just want to take their money and run with it.

edit so i'm on topic though;;
There really is a lot of that. >_> It could be lazy, could be a perfectionist thing, could be lazy, or maybe lazy..? Anyone can draw if you practice. Sometimes people are going to be naturally better than you, but point is everyone slowly gets better, even if they're terrible forever. Sometimes art just isn't your calling. But stealing shouldn't be your calling either, and you're going to get caught, so why do you?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 03:36:44 PM by Mithril »

Offline alice

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #20: August 08, 2008, 03:42:04 PM»
IM STILL HONEST ;_;

if you ask me if i refd something i will tell you the truth
why should i be ashamed that i need help with anatomy? everyone has problems with it sometimes
sure i put SJFHKJS ART COPYRIGHTS ME but thats because im lazy
but ill never get so caught up in being the most popular artist ever that ill deny ever reffing shit because i ref shit all the time
also why do people even trace/ref shit and deny it
because theyre GOING to be found out
its bound to happen and theyre going to lose all their commissioners
so idk the point in it alldjhfdfffffff

edit: o also i do trace shit
but only for fun because tracing something and fucking with the colours is fun as hell
but i would never in my life upload it and say its mine unless i wanted to totally fuck my art career lol
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 03:47:05 PM by Alice »

Offline Morgan

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #21: August 08, 2008, 05:02:24 PM»

I see a lot of skills bouncing up and down, I notice a lot of it is commissions are turning out really bad, personal art is turning out flawless. Lazy artists want their personal pieces to be amazing, so they spend hours working on it, but if it's not for them, they just want to take their money and run with it.

qft at least for me, lol. this is exactly why i stopped taking commissions. that, and pixel art is a bitch and commissions are stressful. i disliked doing lousy art for other people but nice art for myself so i stopped doing it. :|

Offline Azula

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #22: August 08, 2008, 05:17:24 PM»
i think when we find someone who is stealing art, we calmly confront them. it seems like most people just badger them, "HEY YOU'RE AN ART THIEF GET OUT OF HERE, THIEF." it's like stealing in zelda: link's awakening. you steal one thing and get called THIEF throughout the entire game.

too bad it's not like fable where you can go around slaughtering people and get 100 evil and then go around and do good deeds and go back to 0 neutral and then to 100 good and then go marry people and be the good guy for awhile and then go back to 100 evil with the sword you received when you killed your sister after you defeated jack.

Offline Feri

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #23: August 09, 2008, 12:42:42 AM»
edit: o also i do trace shit
but only for fun because tracing something and fucking with the colours is fun as hell
but i would never in my life upload it and say its mine unless i wanted to totally fuck my art career lol


I've done this once or twice, seen an image and made it into a port, but I would NEVER EVER EVER UPLOAD IT TO THE PUBLIC! Because it's not mine and I would be slaughtered.

Usually when I use refs I just take pictures of myself.... but usually I don't try stuff complicated enough to use refs ],:

at Jenni: I'm sure lots of the people that are caught are still nice people. I really hope that they don't feel the need to disappear off the face of the internet. I know I at least don't think any differently of them. Just maybe of their art.

Offline ADALEINE

Re: Where have all the honest artists gone? :(
«Reply #24: August 09, 2008, 11:53:43 AM»
I think everyone's under suspicion nowadays to be honest. Finch and Havoc even made a thread about me last year, though I don't think they were being serious.

I don't recall MAKING the thread, merely contributing to it. ;) It was due to the fact the two ports were very similar, and how were we to know the guy asked you to make a replica? This was before all the rules in the Art Alerts were enforced, if I recall.

The only thread I ever made was about (Connect).

I'm all for tracing to improve your style, so long as you don't upload the picture, claim it as yours, or actually COPY that style. All the things I've referenced are from http://posemaniacs.com/ and even then I don't upload the pictures, and if I did I'd link to the original pose on that site.

To be honest, it's somewhat easy to find someone who traces if they have half their gallery with 'original' images, too. It's like.. 'Wow, that picture looks fantastic, but this one.. Well the anatomy isn't as good, the pose is weird, and the face... it's like their art is declining!!' Might not be like that for all trace cases, and tracing might not be the reason for an artist's talent declining, but sometimes.. Eh. Babbling.

P.S. All the good artist's are still around. The ones who needed to trace couldn't be considered good, as they never had original talent in the first place. \:
« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 11:56:51 AM by Finch »

 

anything