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Author Topic: Possible Case of "Tracing"  (Read 6573 times)

Offline Morgrim

Possible Case of "Tracing"
«: September 28, 2008, 05:27:18 PM»
I randomly clicked this character called "Empire" and automatically fell in love with the portrait. It was some time before I realized I had seen the likeness of the portrait somewhere else. Finding the picture, it would seem the portrait was merely a case of "tracing", someone elses work.
Here is Empire's portrait;


Here is the picture it resembles;


There is a copyright at the top of the picture. The person who created this portrait, it would seem
they merely traced and shaded it, adding a few details of their own.

 
        

Offline Nny

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #1: September 28, 2008, 05:29:53 PM»
Did you ask the person.......

Offline Kratos

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #2: September 28, 2008, 06:35:19 PM»
either way i just asked and got a somewhat snippy response.
they basically said "WELL im not the first owner and you know the stripes are different and theres no way you can prove its traced and theres a collar and the fur around it is different"
they were kind of defensive. i guess they thought that i posted the thread because they asked if i had anything better to do than "complain about something that can't be proven" when all i was doing was showing them the thread.

once i laid that down they chilled out a bit though, so all is good!!
http://litigate.deviantart.com/art/Empire-74232843

shrank image to 23% height width, overlayed at 50% opacity on one layer.
may have been slightly off in scaling?? looks okay to me.

Sesruc

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #3: September 28, 2008, 07:36:22 PM»
well.
the overlay proves the obvious areas of tracing... i don't think there's much of a debate over that.

but the port is by empire/litigate on dA, for her character empire, right?
or did someone entirely different (not the owner of empire) make that port, uploaded it on empire, and traded the alt around to other people?

Offline Desade

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #4: September 28, 2008, 09:25:46 PM»
Correct, Litigate made the port but no longer owns Empire. My friend does now.
~~~

Offline Hugo

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #5: September 29, 2008, 08:31:08 AM»
Well that's shitty. Tell them to knock it off.

Offline Dibit

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #6: September 29, 2008, 11:25:52 AM»
My friend owns the alt. I'll try contacting her about this and see if she can give us any info.

Offline Desade

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #7: September 29, 2008, 12:04:54 PM»
My friend owns the alt. I'll try contacting her about this and see if she can give us any info.
 

I know her too, and we talked about it. She said she had contacted a guardian about it.
~~~

Offline Lovedoll

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #8: September 29, 2008, 01:10:11 PM»
My friend owns the alt. I'll try contacting her about this and see if she can give us any info.
 

I know her too, and we talked about it. She said she had contacted a guardian about it.

Portrait related issues are not part of the Guardians' job. She needs to contact [email protected] to get it resolved.

Offline Mredria

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #9: September 29, 2008, 03:29:14 PM»
Actually if it's about a portrait that is stolen, she needs to contact [email protected]

edit: that is, if the portrait art is stolen, the artist needs to contact [email protected]
---I apologize---

Offline Lovedoll

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #10: September 29, 2008, 04:31:33 PM»
Actually if it's about a portrait that is stolen, she needs to contact [email protected]

edit: that is, if the portrait art is stolen, the artist needs to contact [email protected]

No, she needs to contact [email protected] Leah has specifically stated such before.

Offline Mredria

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #11: September 29, 2008, 04:50:07 PM»
Posts by Kamose and Emerald Flame can be found on the subject here -> http://forums.furcadia.com/index.php?furcadia_session_id=12225-zben-dsv&showtopic=25966&

"Actually if the artist and the one who uploaded the protrait, not knowing it was stolen both request that it be taken down, we usually do that as a one time thing. It goes on a case by case basis though, so yes, emailing [email protected] or [email protected] is the thing to do."

We're both right! jolly-oh.
---I apologize---

Offline Lovedoll

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #12: September 30, 2008, 05:12:25 AM»
Posts by Kamose and Emerald Flame can be found on the subject here -> http://forums.furcadia.com/index.php?furcadia_session_id=12225-zben-dsv&showtopic=25966&

"Actually if the artist and the one who uploaded the protrait, not knowing it was stolen both request that it be taken down, we usually do that as a one time thing. It goes on a case by case basis though, so yes, emailing [email protected] or [email protected] is the thing to do."

We're both right! jolly-oh.

There was a discussion on FAM about whether either works or not. Leah, the person who deals with art related situations, went through the trouble to come to FAM and FAZ and post topics on how art theft cases are to be dealt with. She specifically stated to send the emails to [email protected]. Even if both email addresses work, Leah might be using [email protected] and [email protected] in different ways to sort her emails and if the emails are directed to [email protected], the artist will probably be helped quicker.

I know [email protected] works too, but if Leah asks people to send emails to [email protected], they should just be sent to [email protected] as she requested. There's no point arguing in which is better. Emerald Flame and Kamose are not the people who deal with portrait copyright issues. Leah is. And if Leah says to use that email, just use it.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 05:14:01 AM by Starri »

Offline Puppy

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #13: September 30, 2008, 05:35:20 PM»
Note: Litigate is the artist. Litigate is not the current owner, and the current owner has only the knowledge that was posted here. I was a previous owner as well, who bought the alt (as did the current owner) for the portrait.

So at this point in time, I think the hunt needs to move onto someone asking Litigate him/herself about it. Eh?

Offline Hexy

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #14: October 11, 2008, 05:41:28 PM»
Well, this is depressing. I personally know and adore Litigate's artwork ):

As for the port, I dont think the artist of that picture will care enough to contact furcadia about it (as is the case with most tracing cases from non-furc artists >: )

Having said that (although I'm not completely certain he wont bother to contact furc but fairly sure) do you think it would be alright if the new owner still used the port if the original artist never contacts furc about it?

I know that I for one adore that port, and yes, while it is traced work, I know that current owner paid a fair amount for the alt (and definately the art). I believe many of us adore that port and were considering buying the alt jsut for that reason. Idk. It just seems rather unfair to me to pay near 50 bucks (or more Idk how much was exactly paid out, Pup would have to tell you that since he was the last owner) and get screwed like that, especially if the artist doesn't care enough to contact furc. Idk. Just a thought. I dont suggest using this for every situation, but this one inpaticular seems like a rather large loss. I could be completely alone on thinking this, so feel free to disagree (:

Offline Tat

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #15: October 12, 2008, 10:07:57 PM»
Well, this is depressing. I personally know and adore Litigate's artwork ):

As for the port, I dont think the artist of that picture will care enough to contact furcadia about it (as is the case with most tracing cases from non-furc artists >: )

Having said that (although I'm not completely certain he wont bother to contact furc but fairly sure) do you think it would be alright if the new owner still used the port if the original artist never contacts furc about it?

I know that I for one adore that port, and yes, while it is traced work, I know that current owner paid a fair amount for the alt (and definately the art). I believe many of us adore that port and were considering buying the alt jsut for that reason. Idk. It just seems rather unfair to me to pay near 50 bucks (or more Idk how much was exactly paid out, Pup would have to tell you that since he was the last owner) and get screwed like that, especially if the artist doesn't care enough to contact furc. Idk. Just a thought. I dont suggest using this for every situation, but this one inpaticular seems like a rather large loss. I could be completely alone on thinking this, so feel free to disagree (:

I agree, due to the level it's been handed down. The person who owns it now didn't know and would be robbed out of their fairly paid money.

Just my two cents. Hope it all clears up.

Offline Cristina

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #16: October 18, 2008, 08:32:05 PM»
Has anyone contacted Litigate about this?
Might be a good idea, since I'm pretty sure that is a legit tracing, and she charges mad cash for her commissions...

Sesruc

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #17: October 18, 2008, 08:49:32 PM»
well as we all know, before we even start a thread it is a good idea to contact the accused "tracer."

so... did morgrim contact litigate?

now that i check the link to the port again, it's still uploaded and it doesn't say anything about even that it's "based off a ref" or what not.

if morgrim didn't contact litigate, i could just simply link her to this thread.

Fry

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #18: October 21, 2008, 10:04:52 PM»
Litigate is barely on furcadia anymore that I know.

But this isn't... the first time, or atleast not for me. Terrana commissioned me and her, and I sent Terr my picture but she apparently "forgot" and the next thing I know litigate popped out a picture that was... nearly identical to mine. It didn't look traced, per se, but similar enough - and I know theres only so many poses for ferals, but I thought it was weird especially cuz I didn't upload it. WHELP THAT WAS MY 2 CENTS gl w/ this

p.s. has anyone showed her this yet?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 10:58:09 AM by Constantine »

Offline lu

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #19: October 22, 2008, 03:54:51 AM»
just so you people know, her main on furc is sledge.. i guess.
you guys really should try contacting her. idk if she's aware about this thread, lol.

Offline Zodiac

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #20: October 25, 2008, 12:05:04 PM»
People should always be contacting the accused before posting threads as it is. :P

Sesruc

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #21: October 26, 2008, 06:31:34 PM»
ok, i contacted her. still waiting for her to respond so i can post the actual notes.

our conversation was very blunt and to the point.

in a nutshell what happened:
1. i linked her to this thread
2. she said that someone had already showed her but she didn't bother to respond because it'd be pointless for her to fight over "false accusations"
3. she claims that the port wasn't traced, but reffed instead

in my opinion no matter how i look at the layover of the port and the image, it's wayyyy too close to be called a reference.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 06:36:38 PM by Sesruc »

Sesruc

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #22: October 29, 2008, 03:24:45 PM»
ack the notes are in order from the most recent first.

---------

Litigate said the following:

yes.

----------
Sesruc said the following:

um wait. so can i post it, yes or no?

----------
Litigate said the following:

yeah. the port was reffed, not traced.
----------
Sesruc said the following:

uhmm alright then. do you mind if i post your response to my note for the other guys at FAZ to see?

----------
Litigate said the following:

they did. i just never commented because i honestly don't care. im not fighting over false accusations. lol

----------
Sesruc said the following:

[link]

no one contacted you i don't think. so.. here you go. :)

Offline Adielle

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #23: October 31, 2008, 07:31:46 AM»
Everything lines up; still tracing in my book, no matter how many markings are added.  People really need to learn the difference between a reference and a traced piece of art.  I really don't think all these artists accused of tracing are THAT dumb...or maybe they are.  Who knows.
Goodbye my Sunshine, for we are but smoke and ash...

My Gallery.

Offline Poi

Re: Possible Case of "Tracing"
«Reply #24: November 01, 2008, 05:13:33 AM»
Dude. She/He/it isn't commenting because they're embarrassed because they know they traced. There's no doubt in my mind, it's a direct trace. I ref. Most people ref. A lot of people ref. It helps. But for gods sakes, when you ref and 99.99999% of everything matches up... You're not reffing anymore. You're tracing.

I think this is pretty open and shut.

 

anything