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Author Topic: "You're not ready to take commissions!"  (Read 4865 times)

Offline Lovedoll

"You're not ready to take commissions!"
«: October 21, 2008, 06:44:35 AM»
... Who has the right to say this? Honestly? I don't mean to offend anyone, but I'm rather upset and disappointed in some artists for telling others this when they seek criticism and pricing on their works.

When I was 14 and I drew heavily deformed Lupes (Neopets) for Neopoints, I don't know if I'd be anything of the artist I am now if someone had told me in such a serious tone I wasn't ready. It would have discouraged me greatly... People were very willing to buy my artwork, even if it sucked. Commissions encouraged me and urged me to practice. Even if I spent all day working for a lousy 5K Neopoints, I felt like I actually accomplished something good. Like I was a good artist like my idols because people wanted to pay me for my art. It was a motivation to become better.

And now, all I see is a lot of novice artists who are still trying to get a hang of things being told that they're not good enough to take on commissions. This... quite honestly angers me. It's one thing to have the opinion ****YOU**** wouldn't commission them, but don't speak for the rest of the world. I have commissioned artists whose drawings push the limits of 'canine or feline?'. I still do actually. Not because I'm dying to get such a great piece of artwork that makes the blind see again, but because I feel that despite the lack of experience, they still try hard and the effort shows.

What possesses people to pass down a verdict and speak for others this way? What makes them think there aren't people out there who want to commission a beginner artist? Are they truly vain enough to believe that, just because they draw a little better due to experience, they have any right to tell an artist whether they're ready for commissions or not?

Let people decide for themselves if the artist is ready for commissions. If the artist is okay with spending the entire day busting their ass for a meager wage, let them. I, for one, wish I had that kind of passion left within me. To spend the entire day drawing and working hard even if it's not that good, even if it doesn't pay well. Because they're determined to improve, determined to practice, that's what made a lot of us good artists to begin with.

If people are willing to pay for a beginner's work and the artist enjoys doing it... what in heaven's name gives anyone the right to discourage them and say "You should wait with commissions until you're better!"?

It just seems so... vain. Discouraging. Nobody's right to make such a decision.

 
        

grimfaefly

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #1: October 21, 2008, 07:14:32 AM»
Not sure if you were looking for replies or anything but..

I agree with you on this and I speak from personal experience. The only reason I could rationalize folks telling others 'you're not ready' is to prehaps keep said artist from getting down on themselves if no one happens to commission them. Yes, somewhere out there folks WILL want their work, but sometimes people get really offended that the masses aren't seeking their stuff.

Everyone starts somewhere so overall.. it's not really anyone else's call if someone is ready or not. Hell, a year back I feel I wasn't very good at all yet people were willing to get something here and there. So while one person might not dig so and so's work.. there are others who do.

Offline Lovedoll

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #2: October 21, 2008, 08:03:16 AM»
Quote from: Faefly
Not sure if you were looking for replies or anything but..

I agree with you on this and I speak from personal experience. The only reason I could rationalize folks telling others 'you're not ready' is to prehaps keep said artist from getting down on themselves if no one happens to commission them. Yes, somewhere out there folks WILL want their work, but sometimes people get really offended that the masses aren't seeking their stuff.

Everyone starts somewhere so overall.. it's not really anyone else's call if someone is ready or not. Hell, a year back I feel I wasn't very good at all yet people were willing to get something here and there. So while one person might not dig so and so's work.. there are others who do.


It is posted in In-depth talk, so yes, a discussion on views and perhaps more insight on WHY people say this is all very welcome.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying in the first bit though... You mean discouraging artists in order to keep them from being disappointed? From a friend's point of view, I can understand that... But part of growing as an artist is getting butthurt and learning to overcome that, so from another point of view I'd like to say it's not very productive.

I also think part of being motivated to become better is precisely because the masses don't seek their stuff. It drove me to become better because I wanted to be accepted as an artist. So if you look at it from that angle, it doesn't rationalize well. xD

I suppose in the end it may just be the wording people use. It's one thing to say "I wouldn't buy your stuff". But it's a whole other thing all together when you say "You shouldn't be doing commissions because you're not good enough".

Offline Sedde

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #3: October 21, 2008, 08:19:49 AM»
Not to be a cunt or anything...

But I happen to think this has sprung from part of the victimized, "poor me" attitude that has developed in our society over the past few years, and I'm SICK OF IT. Not everyone was meant to be good at everything! Not everyone has TALENT, not everyone should be patted on the head and treated like they're as good as everyone else, because, plain and simple, they're NOT.

So that's why I, for one, tell people sometimes that they shouldn't take commissions yet. Some of us worked for years to be good at what we do, and even then, our work was sub-par in our eyes. But we didn't start asking people to pay us for our work right off the bat! The fact of the matter is some things just plain aren't meant to be no matter how hard you try, and I'm not going to lie to someone to make them feel better about their work not improving much. If they really, truly want to improve no matter the lack of talent, then maybe they should just try harder. Take some classes or something. Have someone TEACH them how to be an artist, if that's what they want.

Oi.

[edit] In conclusion, if you want sympathy and encouragement no matter how horrible you are, go cry to your mommy.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 08:31:47 AM by Dwy »

Offline Sorbet

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #4: October 21, 2008, 08:58:01 AM»
I agree with you, but on the other hand, telling someone they are not ready for commissions might encourage them to rethink what they're doing, practice and try harder and try to prove whoever is telling them they're not ready, wrong.

grimfaefly

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #5: October 21, 2008, 11:18:46 AM»
To Starri - sorry if I made no sense what so ever, I'm sick right now, on NyQuil and typed that just before passing out again. Anyways, sometimes new artists need that bit of encouragement (being butthurt) to actually improve, not have everyone kiss up to them. Honestly, that's why I usually try to avoid asking my friends what they think of my work, unless I KNOW they're going to be brutually honest if need be.

Constructive critisism = win. Tell people WHAT they need to improve on, offer links to tutorials if possible. Beyond that, it's their choice. In the end, no need to be a total douche but you don't wanna avoid being truthful. Find a happy medium, yanno?


To Dwy - You're right, folks shouldn't be babied however there's 'gentle' ways to tell people they need to practice a bit more and then there's 'harsh' ways. Granted, I know some people REFUSE to listen unless you're harsh so it's a case by case thing. As for people trying to take commissions RIGHT off the bat of just learning to draw (and not being very good), in the end it's their choice. Frustrating as it might be to all of the more 'skilled' artists there's really nothing anyone can do.

I know I was just plain too SCARED to try and take commissions until recently and even now I'm not trying very hard because I feel I still have room for improvement. Mainly with shading/coloring. At very least, I can admit that though and not be hounding for people to be all 'OMG, no wai! U rock!' because that isn't going to help me any. xD

(sorry if I rambled and repeated myself, still on NyQuil =( )

Offline Azula

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #6: October 21, 2008, 12:56:33 PM»
i'm going to have to agree with dwy..

i mean seriously, "not ready for commissions" is, to me, the nice way of putting it. some people don't have the ability or actual talent to produce commissionable artwork. sure, they can draw, but do people actually want their art?

Sesruc

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #7: October 21, 2008, 02:48:00 PM»
eh.

saying "you're not ready for commissions" isn't really speaking for everyone. it's the person stating his or her own opinion.

when i first started drawing, the thought of commissions never entered my mind. but when it did.. i asked the general population if i was ready to be commissioned. i had mixed reviews for the most part. some said "sure go ahead!" and others said "a little more work and then you'll be ready!"

and of course, i took this and continued to practice and practice.

i mean all in all, there are going to be people out there who won't commission you and those who will. if you find it so truly devastating to the point that you're just going to run around in circles and cry that some people find that your art is not good enough for them to commission, then it's best you go do something else.

everyone has a right to their own opinion.

Offline Jenni

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #8: October 21, 2008, 04:06:00 PM»
when i first started doing art, i was doing it for the money. hey man, do some art, get some cash. quicker and easier than selling alts, right? no. i tried to sell some premades and none of them sold. i offered commissions -- no one commissioned me. you know why? i wasn't ready. i wasn't good enough to be commissioned, so instead i offered to do free shit.

i personally feel it isn't being rude to say you're not ready. if someone told me i wasn't ready, hell, i'd be happy, so i don't have to break my ass overcharging something that's worth nothing. rather than them looking ridiculous by overcharging for something no one wants (i'm sure we do it all the time when any artist charges too much for a single portrait), they can have some insight that -- hey, you're not ready. try a little harder!

honestly, 99.9% when someone says "you're not ready", i fully agree with them. so


Offline Hugo

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #9: October 21, 2008, 07:02:38 PM»
If I wouldn't pay for something and it is my opinion that to pay for it would be a rip-off to someone else, I would fully support telling the artist not to open commissions just yet.

A better way to grab interest without grabbing flamers is to offer free artwork to boost your skills and to practice whenever you can.

Opening commissions with horrible (yes I said it) artwork, leaves an impression on your customers that may linger even when you get better down the road. Of course it is always an artist's choice when they begin to charge for their work, but I have no problem telling someone who asks my opinion just what that opinion is.

Offline Adielle

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #10: October 21, 2008, 09:29:36 PM»
Not to be a cunt or anything...

But I happen to think this has sprung from part of the victimized, "poor me" attitude that has developed in our society over the past few years, and I'm SICK OF IT. Not everyone was meant to be good at everything! Not everyone has TALENT, not everyone should be patted on the head and treated like they're as good as everyone else, because, plain and simple, they're NOT.

So that's why I, for one, tell people sometimes that they shouldn't take commissions yet. Some of us worked for years to be good at what we do, and even then, our work was sub-par in our eyes. But we didn't start asking people to pay us for our work right off the bat! The fact of the matter is some things just plain aren't meant to be no matter how hard you try, and I'm not going to lie to someone to make them feel better about their work not improving much. If they really, truly want to improve no matter the lack of talent, then maybe they should just try harder. Take some classes or something. Have someone TEACH them how to be an artist, if that's what they want.

Oi.

[edit] In conclusion, if you want sympathy and encouragement no matter how horrible you are, go cry to your mommy.

Amen, Dwy.

I just wanted to add, that while I think artists have the right (no matter how good or bad you are) to do commissions whenever, though, if you really aren't proficent enough with anatomy and other qualities people look for when commissioning, it might be worth it to work on your skills before starting.  Why do I say this?  Because not everyone can finish a picture in 30 min, some very good artists and some beginners alike take quite some time on their artwork.  Is being paid 1-2gds for what you consider a CG picture worth your time?  In my opinion, its not worth your time.  Now, on the other side, if your one of these new artists that pops out work in 10 min flat but still has a lot to learn, maybe you need to learn to be more patient and put a bit more time into your work and you might be able to approve upon it.  Why would anyone pay for anything thats half assed?  I sure as hell wouldn't.

The bottom line is, if your a beginner, you may be able to grow in your art, you may not, but in order to find this out you need to take the time to practice.  No point in getting paid 1gd for your art when you could be using your time better by actually practicing and getting better so you might be able to earn a bit more for your time and work.

EDIT: Being babied and patted on the back as Dwy so nicely put it...well, go look at shitty reality shows like American Idol or So you think you can dance.  I'm sure some of you have seen them and also seen how many people come in with their parents praising them as the "best thing that ever could happen for dance/music".  Most of these people are praised by their parents constantly for being the best of something even ii they aren't.  Then they hear what the judges say and they break down and feel their life isn't worth shit anymore.  You know something?  I'd rather know if I am absolute shit at something before I get too emmersed in it so I don't have to winge about it later when I can't get anywhere with it. 

I am realistic about my art.  I have a unique style, sure, I am decent with color and half way decent with anatomy sometimes.  I've worked years to get where I am and I can even use the practice still, which is why I only open commissions on rare oppurtunities.  Will I make it as an artist for my career?  I wish, but I am realistic.  I am definitely not the best thing out there and I doubt I'll ever be.  This is what all artists need to think about, beginners and oldies alike.  Some of us only draw for hobby, some of us take commissions on the side of a real job because we've excelled enough to make a decent bit off of them.  Some of us may be good enough to make a career out of the industry, some of us may not.  Art isn't some easy world to get into, its hard work, and if your new to art then your better off working on practice.  Commissions should NEVER be a time to practice. Commissions are meant to be polished work.  The art doesn't have to be perfect in ever aspect, but you should practice on your own time, not while doing so with someone's money.  They are commissioning you because they obviously either like what they see or don't have much money and want something cheap.  Either way, they expect whatever they see in the examples to be what they get. Does all practice mean your going to improve?  No.  Do you know how long it took me to find my style?  I hell of a long time.  I really didn't even get to where I was until this past year and even know I am always looking to improve.  Until you can grasp the basic elements of art, I'd recommend to keep practicing on your own.

And lastly, realistically analyse your work.  Don't look at it with dreamy eyes and say its perfect just to keep yourself happy.  Seriously, your doing yourself no good.  There are always things that can be improved on.  People who can't take critiques shouldn't be drawing, period.  If you can't sit back and listen to whats wrong with a picture then you aren't meant to improve.  When I say realistically analyse yourself, sit back and look at a sketch or fully polished piece you did six months aog and compare it to what you did today.  Is it better?  But how much?  If your new to art and your honestly not improving at all then maybe its time to find a new hobby, one you are good at.  Everyone is good at something and as Dwy said, not EVERYONE has talent in everything.  Art may not be your thing, but you may find that you amazing at something else.  Why waste your time doing something your never going to get anywhere in when you can find something your good at and suceed?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 10:36:32 PM by Adielle »
Goodbye my Sunshine, for we are but smoke and ash...

My Gallery.

Offline Lovedoll

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #11: October 22, 2008, 03:12:22 AM»
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am not against it. I'm going to try to reply to most posts here in a nutshell, so sorry if I miss out on some bits... or if this post becomes really huge. <.<

Self-centered stuck up artists are not my focus on this. Attention whores, people who think they are the best etc. are a whole different group of people. It's not just expressed in their art, but in their general attitude as well. The group of artists I'm speaking of are those who enjoy doing art and offer it at low prices because they have fun doing it and are motivated to practice.

I think I just have a problem with phrasing. It's okay if YOU wouldn't commission that person, but if you phrase it like "You're not ready to be taking commissions right now" you're not expressing it as your opinion alone, but in a sense you're telling the artist "Nobody wants your shit/People won't be inclined to buy it". Towards a person who draws because it's fun and a really big hobby, or maybe even a possible career prospect, phrasing it like that isn't very constructive.

I also don't think that it's of anyone's business to say it to begin with, honestly. Just because your artwork didn't sell, or because you feel you were busting your ass over nothing, doesn't mean you have to pass down your attitude down onto others. I just hate the negativity that spreads with that. The person you're telling not to take commissions isn't you. Their future isn't yours. If their artwork is truly so horrific nobody wants it, let them find out by themselves. It's their life after all.

When I started out I was extremely passionate about artwork. I now see a lot of people with the same passion suppressed because the artists they look up to tell them they're not worth anything yet. Again, I'm not speaking of the arrogant shits who whine and bitch that people hate their art. I'm talking about genuine artists who WANT to bust their ass for little money.

I don't feel a lot of people are really understanding what I'm trying to say here. A lot of you folks are comparing these beginning artists to yourselves as you are now. "I busted my ass to get where I am now." "I am realistic with myself and know where my limits are."

Why are you telling people NOT to do things that led to where you are now? Didn't the majority of you come to be the great artists now through self-discovery? Most of you were never told not to do commissions, you just learned to read the signs. Lack of commissions, lack of interest, people simply just giving you criticism. You started to understand how things worked because you bumped your nose a few times and learned when the door was shut or open for you.

Basically, what a lot of people are doing can be compared to this: You had a shitty childhood and made mistakes. Now that you're grown up and have children of your own, you are trying to protect your children from making the same mistakes you made. However, you're going way overboard with this and are forbidding your children so much they get so discouraged, they don't just refrain from doing what you did, but it's also stopping them from developing other important things. Talents. Basic understanding.
You became the responsible, realistic grown up because you learned from mistakes you made. But now you are preventing your children from becoming like you because you're telling them what not to do before they even understand anything. You're discouraging them and not allowing to grow as you once did.

It may be a little bit of an awkward example, but I hope it clarifies my point a little. It's alright to want to help beginning artists, but YOU became good artists because you learned from mistakes. Beginning artists need to know how it feels like. Even if they know the basics of how to start drawing with circles and squares, it takes insight to understand how anatomy works. Something like that is only gained through experience and studying, learning from mistakes. It's not talent, or knowing how to. It's experience.

Can you see that telling someone their work isn't good enough for commissions is basically telling a beginning artist they shouldn't gain experience? I was a shitty artist myself, but I learned how commissions worked effectively because people offered me a few lousy neopoints for it. I LEARNED to understand there are people who wouldn't commission me and people who would. I understood through trial and error what people want and what they don't.

Giving free art isn't a solution for everyone. There are many artists who enjoy busting their asses for free, but there are equally as much who feel much more satisfaction and encouragement when they get something in return. Whether it's 1GD or 10GD for a drawing doesn't matter. It's a reward that a lot of artists seem to have... forgotten. To a lot it may seem pointless to put so much effort into drawing shitty art for a lousy buck or less. Because 1 buck isn't worth anything. Not to YOU. But to a beginning artist it's one step closer to becoming the artist they look up to; you.

There are many artists out there who exceed my own skills but whom I wouldn't commission in a million years. There are many experienced artists whom I think of they shouldn't be doing commissions because I think their art is horrible, even if they know the trade. Why is it acceptable to basically piss on a beginner, but if I would tell a very well known artist the same thing I would suddenly be a mean, jealous person?

I'm not going to say everyone needs to stop telling artists not to take on commissions. It's your decision at all times what you say and do. But I hope I somewhat made clear why I think it's a really bad and downright mean thing to do to an artist.

There are many reasons why I disapprove of people doing this. I can definitely understand why you'd say it to help an artist out, don't get me wrong. I just don't think it's necessary, and even though it's a personal opinion, try to imagine what would happen if you told a famous artist the same thing. If it's your opinion, that's fine. To each their own. But to me it comes off as very counter-productive. I firmly believe in letting people make their own mistakes and learning from it themselves. In a way, by telling them they're not ready you're babying them as well; you're trying to prevent them from making mistakes and looking after them.

I just hope that this post clarifies my stance and my train of thought on this. That almost all of us became as good as we are because nobody babied US and let us do as we pleased. It may not be true for everyone, but going by what a lot of you posted on this thread, you were on your own back then as well. And look at how good you've become. How you've grown into coming to realize your own limits, your potential, how much of a future there is in art for you. Did you achieve all this because someone told you what you should or shouldn't do?

I know it doesn't stand true for me. I learned on my own through my mistakes, which is why I'm so much for letting beginning artists do it as well. In the long run, if the artist thinks it's worth it to bust their ass for little money, you don't really have much of a right to tell them they shouldn't be doing it. At least, I don't think you do.

And again, I'm not talking about the hissyfit throwing attention seekers.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 03:14:57 AM by Starri »

Offline Lovedoll

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #12: October 22, 2008, 03:24:27 AM»
And, I want to point this out separately:

Quote from: Adielle
Commissions should NEVER be a time to practice. Commissions are meant to be polished work.  The art doesn't have to be perfect in ever aspect, but you should practice on your own time, not while doing so with someone's money.  They are commissioning you because they obviously either like what they see or don't have much money and want something cheap.  Either way, they expect whatever they see in the examples to be what they get.

With all respect for your opinion, this isn't a standard, but exactly what it is; an opinion. You yourself certainly have drawn things that were new to you for a commission, have you not? If you try something new for a commission, whether it's a species you haven't tried before or a setting the commissioner requested, it WILL become practice for you.

In general, commissions should be polished works. But the problem I have with this statement is that quality is a matter of personal taste. I commission artists who aren't very experienced, NOT because it's a polished work or really good. I commission them because the work has a certain charm about it. People who are just getting the hang of things tend to express their dedication more in their work than most bigger artists. It's nothing that should be categorized under the same category, I don't think.

Besides that... I have commissioned really good artists for works and expected them to be up to par with their current work. But some pieces I got were a really big disappointment. I could tell that they didn't give a rat's ass and were doing it just because I paid them, so while the artwork was.. okay, it wasn't anything like I'd hoped for. It was standard, boring, and sort of made me wish I'd asked someone who actually cared to try hard to do it, regardless of their skill level.

It's hard for me to explain, but just like with someone who sings, you can tell from the artwork whether someone really enjoyed doing it or not. And I'd rather listen to a 5 year old kid sing her guts out because she loves doing it regardless of whether she's off-key or not, than listen to an opera singer who sounds like she just wants to get it over with.

Offline Tycho

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #13: October 22, 2008, 03:31:43 AM»
everyone's got an opinion about this !

i have to agree though, with what starri's saying. i don't think you're ever 'not ready for commissions'. if there is one person willing to pay for anything you do for them, then that's great, it's encouraging and it'll keep you optimistic and trying.

when i -first- started out doing ports and drawings and stuff, i was absolutely horrible. i'd link you to some of the stuff but frankly i'm embarrassed. #SR why? because i took commissions little by little, little by little, little by little, and i improved and while i'm not amazing or even able to hold a candle to most of faz i'm better than i was before, and it was all because one, two, maybe three people were brave enough to hand me a few pennies and say 'draw this for me, please!'.

i'm one of those people that won't draw other styles or other things i'm not used to unless i have motivation to. while my style that i draw in is fine for myself, i get better and better when people commission me and say 'i want this *radical example* drawn' -- a great example is when i was very new into commissions and someone commissioned me for something like two catgirls that had bug feet, grasshopper wings, bodies and legs, moth antenna and really showy collar bones. -- what the fuck, right? but i'll be damned if i didn't slave away at that and try to the best of my abilities to match exactly what they were talking about. and you know? now i can draw bug-human-catgirl-moth people. i never would have figured that out if i hadn't started taking commissions.

bottom line is, everyone's gotta start somewhere. i firmly disbelieve that there is a 'set standard' that everyone has to meet before they can take commissions; there's no standardized testing. this isn't school, you're not making a grade to continue on. whenever YOU think YOU'RE ready, by all means give it a shot. if there's one person that's willing to take a chance on you, then you're one for one -- and that's pretty good. word of mouth travels fast, even faster on the net -- so long as you appease that ONE person that commissioned you, they're gonna remember who you are and that you do art for money -- chances are they'll tell their friends, and etc etc etc.

if you wanna take commissions, take commissions. it's your business and yours alone. P:

Quote
People who are just getting the hang of things tend to express their dedication more in their work than most bigger artists.

i second this. people who draw the same tired things over and over again just because they're good tend to put less.... care into it because 'hey, i'm good at this, i really don't need to try anymore'. someone who's drawing something new is usually excited about trying it out, and as a result try -extra- hard to make it look good since it's something new, they want to do it right and be able to add it to their repertoire.

Offline Adielle

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #14: October 22, 2008, 03:39:53 AM»
Well, first off, I will admit to agreeing with a lot you have to say.  Though the one point I don't think you gathered from what I wrote is that "commissions should never be time to practice."  If you truly want to work for money, no matter how much or how little, it should be a polished piece of artwork, something the commissioner can expect to get after looking at your samples.  Now, just because you practice or change something about your artwork doesn't mean its not going to "flop" and not work out.  I have had plenty of that and many others have as well.  Its bad for an artist to use their commissions as practice.  When your learning to grow as an artist learning anatomy, how to color or even trying to create your own unique style, these are things you should be experimenting with on your own time or while drawing gifts for others. 

Another point is that, while I agree that artists have the right to choose when they want to take commissions, for the better or for the worse, its still smart to be realistic.  Basically, what I am getting at is not the whining, annoying brats who just bitch over every little constructive critic you give them.  I'm talking about those who go on their DA journals and elsewhere and are generally trying hard and don't get anywhere, and then end up more depressed and upset in the end.  If your honestly not growing or improving within a decent amount of time, maybe its time to move onto something you can be great in.  Some people are born with artistic talent, others practice hard and gain this talent over time and there are others still whom try and really don't get anywhere.  I am sick of seeing parents, friends and even strangers butter things up to these people.  There is no need to be harsh to them, but if someone really isn't ready for the rough reality, then they are in for hardship down the line.  Why give them false hopes?  It only hurts people more in the future.  I prefer to give my honest opinion in a kind way.  I mean, if art is in fact just a hobby and you know it won't really go anywhere, then I suppose do what you want as long as it doesn't make you sad in the future.  I will never tell someone "you shouldn't do commissions, period."  I will however tell people the general idea of what they need to work on to help them improve and I will give my opinion that doing commissions for a very low amount may become daunting after a while.  If your happy with 1gd per picture, go for it!  I wouldn't stop you and I am sure you may get some commissions.  I'm just giving my suggestions as an artist trying to help other artists. 

Is honesty such a bad thing these days?
Goodbye my Sunshine, for we are but smoke and ash...

My Gallery.

Offline Lovedoll

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #15: October 22, 2008, 03:45:58 AM»
Not at all Adielle, and I agree with your entirely!! However, I really do feel that people need to find it out for themselves, which is.. why I don't approve of people saying that commissions are a bad idea. Because they're not. They're a tool that help you discover.

In the end, self-discovery also leads more easily to self-acceptance. It's easy to hear someone tell you "You might not be ready" than to actually feel and understand yourself you're not. Not until an artist understands this themselves will they truly give up to seek out something else, and this realization isn't induced by people telling them. If that makes sense.

It's the same as 'seeing is believing'. You probably won't believe someone telling you there's a UFO flying above your head until you look up and see it yourself. I think the same applies here. :)

Edit: Totally forgot about the commission part, LOL. Commissions do need to be worked hard on. I guess what you're saying is that beginners are more likely to slack on artwork than more experienced artists because they're not steady on their feet yet? I suppose that is true. BUT! Big but here. It's also the commissioner's responsibility to understand this. I mean, when you go to commission a beginning artist, you should know that their artwork may not turn out like other artwork. That's a risk that's always there, and it's even bigger with the novices. So in the end, I don't think someone who commissions a beginner really cares much about the consistency. If they did, they would seek out someone with more experience, wouldn't they?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 03:49:57 AM by Starri »

Offline Tycho

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #16: October 22, 2008, 03:47:16 AM»
also i feel the need to mention.............


if you're proud of your work, honesttogod PLEASED as PUNCH with it, do you know how absolutely heartbreaking it is to hear someone tell you it's not good enough? telling someone 'you're not ready for commissions' is not only discouraging, it's disrespectful to them.

opening yourself to commissions is a flag that tells other people that you're comfortable with your work enough to try and offer it to other people -- if someone tells you that you're not ready to do that, it's like someone stuffing a sock down your throat when you tell them you're ready for your OKLAHOMA audition. there's only so much improving you can do when you only work for yourself. taking on commissions is not only a job, but it's also a window to leave yourself completely vulnerable, which is how you get better and better from doing it. drawing for yourself can only yield so much improvement, but when you introduce another person into the equation (you + person + money) more often than not it will = success, if only because you're working together side by side to make it the absolute best you can. there's probability they're going to turn up their nose at something, but that's what's awesome about taking commissions -- if someone has a problem with something YOU didn't personally, it's a tiny little opportunity to gain some exp for your skill. like 'i think this looks awesome' 'actually i think that eye looks a little droopy' 'op, you're right, now that i look at it.........' etc

also, asking for opinions yourself is different from being told them. it's different when you say 'should i open commissions?' than when you say 'i'm open for commissions' and someone tells you 'lol no you're not' }:

Offline Adielle

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #17: October 22, 2008, 03:49:49 AM»
Quote from: Starri
People who are just getting the hang of things tend to express their dedication more in their work than most bigger artists. It's nothing that should be categorized under the same category, I don't think.

So you think that just because an artist has been in the game for longer they aren't dedicated?  What a dumb remark.  Your talking about not having the right to tell people that they aren't ready for commissions and your basically saying that skilled artists half-ass because their "good already?"  I'm definitely not some amazing artist, but I never half ass any of my work.  I work my butt off to make my pieces individual and nice.  I regularly practice on my own time, not while doing commissions, so yes, my statement still stands.  Each and every commission piece I draw takes at least an hour worth of my time, if not more.  I plan out the piece before hand and make sure the commissioner is happy with the sketches before going further.  So your saying this isn't dedicated?  Art for me is a hobby, I don't open commissions often and when I do they usually are not open for long.  I tend to give gifts more then I ever do commission pieces.  Why?  Because honestly, I don't even think I am ready for commissions half the time. 

Maybe this was just worded wrong, I don't know, but I honestly resent this statement.  There has never once been anyone here saying that newer artists lack dedication, so I don't think this should have even been brought up.  I have no doubt that any newer artist has just as much dedication as I do or any other artist does.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 03:53:08 AM by Adielle »
Goodbye my Sunshine, for we are but smoke and ash...

My Gallery.

Offline Tycho

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #18: October 22, 2008, 03:54:35 AM»
starri was highlighting newbie artists, not convicting veterans. but if you look through galleries and pay attention to deviation comments and stuff a lot of older artists admit to being tired of drawing one thing or another. it just happens even if they're paid for it or not.

Offline Lovedoll

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #19: October 22, 2008, 03:54:54 AM»
Quote from: Starri
People who are just getting the hang of things tend to express their dedication more in their work than most bigger artists. It's nothing that should be categorized under the same category, I don't think.

So you think that just because an artist has been in the game for longer they aren't dedicated?  What a redicules remark.  Your talking about not having the right to tell people that they aren't ready for commissions and your basically saying that skilled artists half-ass because their "good already?"  I'm definitely not some amazing artist, but I never half ass any of my work.  I work my butt off to make my pieces individual and nice.  I regularly practice on my own time, not while doing commissions, so yes, my statement still stands.  Each and every commission piece I draw takes at least an hour worth of my time, if not more.  I plan out the piece before hand and make sure the commissioner is happy with the sketches before going further.  So your saying this isn't dedicated?  Art for me is a hobby, I don't open commissions often and when I do they usually are not open for long.  I tend to give gifts more then I ever do commission pieces.  Why?  Because honestly, I don't even think I am ready for commissions half the time. 

Maybe this was just worded wrong, I don't know, but I honestly resent this statement.  There has never once been anyone here saying that newer artists lack dedication, so I don't think this should have even been brought up.  I have no doubt that any newer artist has just as much dedication as I do or any other artist does.


Oh, no. I think you misunderstood. I said artists tend to be more inclined not to try as hard as they used to, and that's purely based off my own experiences. I myself don't try as hard anymore sometimes because I know it will turn out decent and acceptable. But unlike as I used to, I don't spend 8 hours on a drawing anymore and pull out everything I currently have. I rarely do anymore because I don't have the time or inspiration.

I also have seen this reflected in other artists' works. Some people I commissioned handed me 'okay' drawings. But it was obvious they didn't take everything out to put into their pieces. Then I had beginners hand me artwork that I KNEW had all of their effort put into it because they did all kinds of little things, like certain details, that others would easily have overlooked.

I never said you or anyone else specifically doesn't try hard. But it's easy to slack when you know that, when you don't try very hard it'll still be up to par. Whereas beginners really do need to bust their asses to meet standards. It doesn't apply to all artists of course, but it seems a lot are more inclined to be that way.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 03:58:33 AM by Starri »

Offline Adielle

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #20: October 22, 2008, 04:00:38 AM»
I suppose I shouldn't speak for everyone when it comes to the dedication thing.  I guess, at least for myself, I know I have a lot to improve on.  I definitely don't feel completely satisfied with my work.  I mean, its decent, which is why I am willing to even put myself out there, but there are plenty of things I don't have down either and I am always working hard to improve the areas that can be improved upon.

Not every veteran artist feels their work is "good enough."  I know I don't and I have a close friend (who's much better then me) who I won't name because I didn't ask her, who says the exact same things.  She doesn't feel her work is good enough.  Obviously this may not stand for everyone, but even artists who have been drawing for a long time can feel the need to constantly improve and work on things.  It doesn't just dull down for everyone.  :p

I do respect, however, the general basis of what you mean, I just read it wrong.  XD
Goodbye my Sunshine, for we are but smoke and ash...

My Gallery.

Offline Tycho

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #21: October 22, 2008, 04:05:38 AM»
old news, no artist ever feels their art is GOOD ENOUGH but as long as they can say they're proud of it they're going in the right direction

for example, the port starri and i did for evo -- i have never been happier with how something came out EVER. the fact that he likes it too is doubleplusgood, but every time i look at it i smile because i tried my hardest and i love how it came out. it's not better than jesus, but for now it'll do C:

continuous improvement is inevitable, and something everyone strives for -- not just beginner artists
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 04:07:46 AM by Noah »

Offline Lovedoll

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #22: October 22, 2008, 04:09:42 AM»
I'm sorry if I worded that awkwardly. >: I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else, it was just a general statement on why I like it that beginner artists accept commissions and why I ask for them myself.

The reason I'm not so dedicated anymore is because.. Well, I'm happy where I am. I'm improving much slower than I did before, but I am drawing mainly because I enjoy it. I'm not seeking improvement, I'm seeking the sort of artistic trance that allows me to work on a drawing and just relax. And even broaden my horizons by trying new things. I'm not looking to get better, my goal is to feel good after I drew something and know I like it. Every artist has a different goal, a different comfort zone etc. (That's not to say I don't have days where I hate something I drew, but in general terms I'm happy with my position)

And that leads me back to the whole "You're not ready for commissions" thing. Every artist knows their limits, and if they don't they need to find it. Being told you're not ready has no purpose, because it's the artist themselves who decides and figures it out. :3 Just like you and your friend do, so should every artist be the only one to know when they're ready or not.

Offline Lovedoll

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #23: October 22, 2008, 08:30:59 AM»
also, asking for opinions yourself is different from being told them. it's different when you say 'should i open commissions?' than when you say 'i'm open for commissions' and someone tells you 'lol no you're not' }:

I can't believe I didn't include that with my first post, lmao. You're absolutely right. What's probably the worst about this is when people ask for crits and a price and someone tells them they shouldn't even be doing them.

Asking "Hey, do you think I should open commissions...?" is very different from "How much should I charge?" and being told "Practice more lol".

I'm also wondering, of all the people who've posted in this thread and have told someone before "I think you should wait doing commissions"... what if I told *you* that? This is pretending I'd not like your art at all or even think it's worth being sold. What if you posted a thread on the boards here, asking for crits and a price, and someone like me tells you "I think you should practice more before you sell those things".

I'm looking for an honest answer here; how would you feel? What would you think?

I don't think a lot of you would be happy about it. Or even think or say "Fuck off" or "Fuck you, I'm taking commissions anyway". Some of you would shrug and say "I don't care for your opinion".

Or what if a whole bunch of people would come in and discourage you from taking commissions? Even better, that happens a lot too.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 08:33:53 AM by Starri »

Offline Sedde

Re: "You're not ready to take commissions!"
«Reply #24: October 22, 2008, 09:40:14 AM»
I'm also wondering, of all the people who've posted in this thread and have told someone before "I think you should wait doing commissions"... what if I told *you* that? This is pretending I'd not like your art at all or even think it's worth being sold. What if you posted a thread on the boards here, asking for crits and a price, and someone like me tells you "I think you should practice more before you sell those things".

I'm looking for an honest answer here; how would you feel? What would you think?

Well, that's pretty much happened to me before. Friggin' Hugo said I should only charge $10 for my portrait work -- which I think is ridiculous, as I put hours and hours of dedication and attention to detail into EVERY portrait I turn out. But, well, if many people told me I was losing my edge, that I shouldn't take commissions...I'd initially be pissed, but then I'd close them for a while, take some requests, take it easy.

I think that, when I tell people they aren't ready to take commissions yet, I'm saying moreso that they need to get more experience in dealing with people on a project of any kind, as well as they need more practice. Y'know what's magical about taking requests or creating gifts for people, though? You get the "reward" of their gratefulness that you did it for free. AND you can push your limits, especially if you take requests on a broad scale like here on the forums, and you can choose the characters that are more complicated to practice on, that way if someone eventually pays you to draw something simpler, it's higher quality too.