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Author Topic: Mature ports  (Read 6556 times)

Offline Lovedoll

Mature ports
«: March 22, 2009, 09:17:19 AM»
Up front, everyone has their own opinion. It's all cool beans, just don't insult or ridicule someone for having a different one than yours. Don't call names or point fingers, just keep it generalized and global. That way we can all discuss happily!



With the mature ports coming out I'm noticing that artists are slowly starting to offer commissions on them, but some are charging ridiculous high prices for them. The way I see it, unless there's some explicit sexual action going on mature ports are nothing more than the current nippleless boob ports that are accepted by DEP and used in-game... + nipples. And those few pixels sure as hell aren't worth a lot more to me.

I actually don't know to what extents the term mature goes in ports (besides nipples), but I wonder... would you pay extra just for those nipples on your ports? Do you think it's fair artists price mature ports higher than regular ports because these would have (finally) realistic boobs?

These are currently in-use, uploaded & accepted by DEP. I'm gathering that mature ports would be these +... you guessed it, nipples! (Maybe slightly defined genitals?)



As might be obvious... yeah, I think it's a little bit of bullshit myself. I know I won't pay extra for that, but it may be a fun topic to discuss and help artists decide whether they will have a business if they go through with higher prices or not. Keep in mind that the term 'mature' currently seems a little undefined and that it may end up changing.

There may be various reasons why artists may charge more for mature ports, I know. To each their own, I'm not saying they shouldn't. It's up to them how comfortable they are with it and how much they think it's worth. But realistically speaking, most of these mature ports would be little more than throwing on a pair of nipples on regular ports and not drawing clothes. Would you, as the client who commissions for portraits, feel this being worth an extra ten dollars to the bill? Would you as the commissioner feel comfortable paying extra for so little more?

Why do you feel it's worth more/the same as regular ports? Would you as the artist feel it's justified to charge more? Why?

You know my opinion, now I want to hear yours~ Just stay nice and let others have their opinion as well, there's no need to insult anyone. If you disagree just be civil is all I ask. This could be a really important discussion for port artist's future and I don't want to see this locked over childish name calling and attitudes.

Give some real, valuable input and everyone is happy. P:

 
        

Offline clockwork

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #1: March 22, 2009, 09:26:37 AM»
here's my two cents on the issue:

the pricing should directly correlate to
1) the artist's comfort zone in terms of drawing mature things and
2) the amount of extra effort  involved in drawing the maturity

in other words, just tossing on a pair of nipples shouldn't be worth 10$ more than a regular portrait (or even 5$ more!). not unless the artist is weeping tears of virgin-eye-raped blood while doing it.

Offline Schwarz

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #2: March 22, 2009, 10:36:14 AM»
If an artist has such a big problem drawing nudity, they probably shouldn't offer mature services at all. Instead of charging that much more to slap on some nipples or a crack on an ass, they could just tell people they're not comfortable doing it. Charging more seems like they're trying to discourage people from asking for it anyway. Why even bother in that case?

If anything, I would think a simple mature port (regular port + nipples) would cost less. No clothes means less effort in some cases where the character would otherwise be wearing something very elaborate.

Now if someone asked an artist to draw something really obscene, like a drooling vag or 50 foot cock, yeah. I'd charge more for that. That's just kinda.. out there.
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Offline MT

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Re: Mature ports
«Reply #3: March 22, 2009, 11:59:55 AM»
I'm still sorta confused about what's going to be allowed on mature ports. Does everything go, or only a few things that are now allowed? If there's a thread or something with information on mature ports I'd love a link c:
As for artists charging more, it really depends on what someone wants. If it's something simple and easy just like drawing nipples or genitals, then unless you have some issue about drawing a, gasp!!!, penis or vagina then don't accept a commission of that. And if it requires a lot of actual effort and extra time, then yeah, charge more.
Now if someone asked an artist to draw something really obscene, like a drooling vag or 50 foot cock, yeah. I'd charge more for that. That's just kinda.. out there.
Thissss. But I wouldn't draw that stuff in the first place lol.

Also, as for violence and blood in ports, I personally find it really fun to draw violence and gore so bring on the blood!

Offline Ashuri

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #4: March 22, 2009, 12:15:58 PM»
I'm still sorta confused about what's going to be allowed on mature ports. Does everything go, or only a few things that are now allowed? If there's a thread or something with information on mature ports I'd love a link c:
As for artists charging more, it really depends on what someone wants. If it's something simple and easy just like drawing nipples or genitals, then unless you have some issue about drawing a, gasp!!!, penis or vagina then don't accept a commission of that. And if it requires a lot of actual effort and extra time, then yeah, charge more.
Now if someone asked an artist to draw something really obscene, like a drooling vag or 50 foot cock, yeah. I'd charge more for that. That's just kinda.. out there.
Thissss. But I wouldn't draw that stuff in the first place lol.

Also, as for violence and blood in ports, I personally find it really fun to draw violence and gore so bring on the blood!
I agree with most of what Beep has said, however, I'm noticing that even now in FurN that there are somewhat vague mature ports already out there.  The ports that Lovedoll has posted in the starting post partly describes what I'm talking about but I've seen some other ports involving blood.  Friends of mine have mentioned a few of their "less" bloody ports not being accepted by DEP even though the ones already in game are more "mature." 

I don't know what DEP plans on doing as far as rules go for the mature ports cause I'm sure there are some people who will be going to other places besides Hawthorne and FurN.  As far as artists charging extra money to click a few pixels to create nipples, I think it's rediculous.  And to be brutally honest, I'm against the mature portrait idea anyway because the last thing I want to see when I click on someone is a giant penis plastered in the window.  I don't know, it just seems to be going beyond the line for me. 

IPGD

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #5: March 22, 2009, 01:30:48 PM»
As long as I never have to see a nippleless boob again in my life, I'll be happy. Those things are creepy. Characters still have arms and hair to hide them with, but removing them altogether looks frigging weird.
Quote
Now if someone asked an artist to draw something really obscene, like a drooling vag or 50 foot cock, yeah. I'd charge more for that. That's just kinda.. out there.
I'll draw that for free.

Offline Lovedoll

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #6: March 22, 2009, 04:12:24 PM»
Well, from what I gathered mature ports are going to be separate spaces. And like how the Furling doesn't work in FurN or Hawthorn, I'm guessing mature portraits won't be viewable in the non-16+ maps. There's also the whole +16 parental control thing built into the client, so it may very well be possible that we will be provided with an option on whether or not we wish to see a maturely labeled port. I don't know, but with how other things are configured right now it should be doable. Whether there's the time and resources to do that is up to DEP. P:

SO, should DEP do the above you will never have to see a mature port in your life if you choose not to. The possibility is there! (:

I do agree that complex ports are worth more money, but that's the thing. A complex port doesn't have to be mature. I'm getting the feeling (and fear) that artists will exploit this new special mature port thing and just... snatch some extra bucks from people with the excuse that it's labeled as mature, not because it's a complex port, you know?

Offline Morgan

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #7: March 22, 2009, 05:02:50 PM»
charging more for adding about 9 pixels in the way of nipples is retarded on all sorts of levels unless you are so sheltered that nipples bother you.

in which case, you should not be on the internet.

Offline Grumpyskunk

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #8: March 22, 2009, 06:04:55 PM»
I'm assuming would be visable penis, vagina and nipples. To me, an extra ten bucks to throw some nipples on there is just plain rediculous.
As long as I never have to see a nippleless boob again in my life, I'll be happy. Those things are creepy. Characters still have arms and hair to hide them with, but removing them altogether looks frigging weird.
I personally like drawing nipple-less things, not because I'm particularly uncomfortable drawing nipples but, in my opinon, if a furrie has fur then the nipples shouldn't be visable unless they are particularly aroused. I'm not sure about everyone elses furs but mine don't run around constantly horny all the time. But I suppose that depends on fur length, etc. I guess that's just my style though.

A penis might warrent a few extra bucks but I think 10 is a little excessive. I think the price should go by difficulty of said genetalia. You know, the grimey details and such. That's my two cents.

Offline Morgan

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #9: March 22, 2009, 06:25:56 PM»
I'm assuming would be visable penis, vagina and nipples. To me, an extra ten bucks to throw some nipples on there is just plain rediculous.
As long as I never have to see a nippleless boob again in my life, I'll be happy. Those things are creepy. Characters still have arms and hair to hide them with, but removing them altogether looks frigging weird.
I personally like drawing nipple-less things, not because I'm particularly uncomfortable drawing nipples but, in my opinon, if a furrie has fur then the nipples shouldn't be visable unless they are particularly aroused. I'm not sure about everyone elses furs but mine don't run around constantly horny all the time. But I suppose that depends on fur length, etc. I guess that's just my style though.

A penis might warrent a few extra bucks but I think 10 is a little excessive. I think the price should go by difficulty of said genetalia. You know, the grimey details and such. That's my two cents.

if you flip a cat over you can see its nipples just fine

Offline Jenni

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #10: March 22, 2009, 06:42:07 PM»
i'd charge extra because i love the little censored furry bubble i live in. i'm perfectly fine without seeing/drawing furry dicks or vaginas. nipples are okay, but i know they'd look hella awkward depending on the size of the portrait (translating small circles into pixels is something i find KIIIIIINDA difficult).

personal preference. i don't like the whole sexual aspect of furries, so i steer clear. i only have my mature filter on FA off because no one barely uploads anything that isn't.
also, seeing as my computer is in my living room, i don't want my parents to see i'm drawing a huge zoomed-in pixel dick. thanksss

Offline Grumpyskunk

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #11: March 22, 2009, 06:55:14 PM»
if you flip a cat over you can see its nipples just fine

True dat, true dat. :P My fur's are more human than animal, generally speaking. Cats also have 6-8 nipples, while my anthro kitty only has 2. I'm assuming they'd work like a humans and only be erect under certain circumstances, thus only poking through the fur at that point. That's just how I play mine though, to each their own.

Offline Sedde

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #12: March 22, 2009, 09:18:06 PM»
i'd charge extra because i love the little censored furry bubble i live in. i'm perfectly fine without seeing/drawing furry dicks or vaginas. nipples are okay, but i know they'd look hella awkward depending on the size of the portrait (translating small circles into pixels is something i find KIIIIIINDA difficult).

personal preference. i don't like the whole sexual aspect of furries, so i steer clear. i only have my mature filter on FA off because no one barely uploads anything that isn't.
also, seeing as my computer is in my living room, i don't want my parents to see i'm drawing a huge zoomed-in pixel dick. thanksss

This. And Youlanda's, 'cause I personally friggin' HATE the sick perverted side of the furry world, blah blah blah. Yes, I'll draw a furry giving a sexy smirk or something like that, because that's how the character is, but I'm not going to draw a sex slave chained up getting whipped 'til they bleed nearly to death or fucked in every possible hole no matter HOW much someone pays me. Just personal policy.

I probably won't allow requests for "mature" art unless it's just blood. Blood's no extra charge to me, I enjoy gore just like Beep does. :B

IPGD

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #13: March 23, 2009, 02:09:45 AM»
I personally like drawing nipple-less things, not because I'm particularly uncomfortable drawing nipples but, in my opinon, if a furrie has fur then the nipples shouldn't be visable unless they are particularly aroused. I'm not sure about everyone elses furs but mine don't run around constantly horny all the time. But I suppose that depends on fur length, etc. I guess that's just my style though.

[...]

True dat, true dat. :P My fur's are more human than animal, generally speaking. Cats also have 6-8 nipples, while my anthro kitty only has 2. I'm assuming they'd work like a humans and only be erect under certain circumstances, thus only poking through the fur at that point. That's just how I play mine though, to each their own.
... I don't think you understand how nipples or fur work.

Nipples don't become larger when erect, they shrink in size and become harder (think about what happens to them when you're cold. Unless you are sexually aroused by the sensation of cold, logic and science say this is because cold makes things shrink). It's significantly different from the penile concept of erection. In some people, nipples are constantly "erect".

Hair does not grow directly on the nipple in either humans or animals. Characters with fur short enough for the full shape of the breast to actually be visible typically would not have fur long enough to cover the nipple itself. Additionally, fur grows in a pattern (away) that deliberately avoids covering the nipple (nursing would be obviously be difficult if the offspring couldn't easily get to its food source).

If you can see the tit, you should also be able to see the nipple. If you don't want to draw nipples, there are a billion tried and true ways to avoid nudity without going to Barbie/Ken Doll country.

Offline Skink

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #14: March 23, 2009, 04:18:22 AM»
Gonna go with the "more money only if it's hella harder" vote. I already doodle the occassional disembodied dick for shock value in my sketchbooks to see which strangers suddenly linger on a certain page but there are some things that just might not translate in to a restrained space (like Jenni's point) very well. Not just nipples. Bones, organs falling out of a chest cavity, and other such details for gore, teeny testicles and certain peircings sexual content wise... Not saying it can't be done but it might be more of a headache then its worth until an artist gets their routine for doing it down. I don't know about you guys but as much as I love trying something new in a drawing, when it comes to putting it in to pixels there's usually similarities between how I do one thing and how I do another. Hair and fur, muscles and faces, different textures... introduce something new to portraits and new techniques for portraying them accuratly have to be adapted.

People who are wanting portraits showing off genitalia and mass carnage are also going to need a lot of the body in the shot. More body shown = more money paid for a lot of portrait artists simply because of the confined space or how much harder it is to draw a whole body instead of just a face. And depending on what they actually let fly we could be looking at weird fit together portraits or hard poses that a lot of artsists wouldn't even want to do, and if they do, they are probably going to charge a pretty penny.

Charging more for something as simple as nipples on otherwise bare boobage seems almost more wrong then people drawing a cat thing getting it in the face for $10 extra.

Offline clockwork

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #15: March 23, 2009, 05:20:58 AM»
whoa this thread hasn't exploded into bickering. that's a really good sign! i think it means that the majority of the artist community (or at least FAZ) is ...mature enough to handle the idea of mature ports. maturely :V

i only added in the thing about money equaiting to comfort zone because hey, let's face it...sometimes people get in a really tight spot financially, and have to sell out. maybe your cat's in for an operation, maybe you broke your leg and need to pay the ambulance bill, maybe tuition rolled in and it's more than you expected. either way, sometimes people take a step outside their comfort zone for the sake of being able to eat that week.

that's the case in which i think it's okay to charge more because it wigs you out.

it'd be really useful if someone could get the rules related to mature ports and post them here...but i dunno if anyone at DEP is allowed to leak said rules, or not.

it'd also be pretty sweet if the client came with an option to just 'turn off mature ports' as opposed to having to enable the parental filter. because some weirdos like me, we like being able to spout a few four-letter words in hawthorne and furn...but are really not partial to clicking someone and being accousted by a horseman clutching their 6 foot dick. i'm not opposed to the artistic nude, and nipples don't make me cry into my pillow at night certainly. but i really don't wanna have to feel like i'm privvy to someone's personal sexual fantasy just because i clicked a guy walking past me. at least with text, you can skim or spam it off your screen. ports open the avenue for "CANNOT UNSEE!"

and on the subject of nipple-less ports, they don't bug me that much. it's better than those ports where people put tape in Xs on their nipples. i can not imagine that would be remotely fun to remove later. shrrrrrrrrrrip.

Offline Lovedoll

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #16: March 23, 2009, 05:38:34 AM»
Anyone can charge as much as they like - I never said they didn't have that right. The question was purely if anyone would pay more for as little as nipples added to the port because that labels it as mature.

As for people who don't enjoy drawing mature stuff... well, charging extra because you don't like it is... Well, if you hate it so much simply don't do it, but don't try to pat some extra coins out of people's wallets under that excuse... it doesn't make sense, not to me at least. You hate it enough to charge people twice the price of regular ports (just an example), but then do it anyway? To me that sounds like just an excuse to get more cash out of it. I've a hard time seeing it as anything else. :c Don't like it? Don't do it. If you're okay with a middleground you obviously don't mind it as much as claimed. (Though I agree with Clock's exception when you're in a really financial spot that it might be an outcome... but still, my argument stands for non-financial trouble situations)

Alsooo, not everyone draws furries. There are a lot of human characters and human chars with ears and tail only - would that be okay to draw? Or is it solely the furry aspect of it that scares people off? I'm seeing multiple people mention the awkwardness/being disgusted over furry sex, when a lot of characters on Furc aren't even furry. So before we go single out and insult anything and everything furry and sexual, let's keep it to 'just sex'. Not everything furry and sexual is sick and perverted, and non-furries can get just as bad or worse. It's not just furries. :P

To be honest though, I still have some trouble considering a lot of mature ports to be more difficult. Right now port artists are charging 'normal' prices for characters who are visible in the frame at like.. I don't know, hips/knees to head? Often times they need to throw in tons of extra trinkets, accessories, wings, detailed markings, belts, complex clothes... And usually (with exceptions of course) they are no more pricey than a regular bust-shot portrait with simple clothes and hair.

If you think about it, unless you need to do some serious studies on human organs to see how they would fall out of a chest if ripped open, drawing a hips-up portrait with an erect dick takes less effort than drawing the same port but with all the extras I mentioned above. It's not difficult to draw and you can find more reference pictures for penises and vaginae than you could possible ever hope to use, so unless your virgin eyes have never, ever laid sight on the (fe)male reproductive organs, I sort of... fail to see why it would be so very difficult and intricate.

And just to enhance my point, Aeva charged me no extra for the almost full-body shots of Starri. Same price as her other ports. (Generally speaking for the majority of port artists:) They're being done at regular price now, and I really hope that won't change just because mature ports will become an excuse to price higher.

Or I'll be saaad, saaad panda.

P.S. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call this sick and perverted. O:
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 05:40:46 AM by Lovedoll »

Offline clockwork

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #17: March 23, 2009, 06:06:33 AM»
well i wouldn't want to see a human male (or female) clutching their 6 foot penis either...
CALL ME CRAZY
JUST NOT SOMETHING I WANT TO HAVE APPEAR ON MY SCREEN AT RANDOM INTERVALS

as far as mature ports being more difficult, it can go either way. while the point is very true that if the character is nude, no clothing is being drawn and hey, easy times...the other end of the argument is that commissioners may want specific difficult poses, or an entire body *with* detailed anatomy crammed into that tiny 95x95 frame. *that* could be hard.

however, if you're an artist used to that to accomodate outrageous costumes...really no different.

granted i'll just be waiting in the wings to giggle when some ...notorious port artists take a stab at drawing genetalia.

Offline Lovedoll

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #18: March 23, 2009, 06:17:45 AM»
granted i'll just be waiting in the wings to giggle when some ...notorious port artists take a stab at drawing genetalia.

You're right. Artists charging more just became completely fine - we should fear the misshapen wieners and beef-flaps.

BE ON YOUR GUARD.

Cough. Sorry.

But hey, detailed anatomy is a foundation you need before you can draw clothes. So to me that's not much different. idk about other people though.

Offline Skink

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #19: March 23, 2009, 06:48:03 AM»
granted i'll just be waiting in the wings to giggle when some ...notorious port artists take a stab at drawing genetalia.

You're right. Artists charging more just became completely fine - we should fear the misshapen wieners and beef-flaps.

BE ON YOUR GUARD.

Cough. Sorry.

But hey, detailed anatomy is a foundation you need before you can draw clothes. So to me that's not much different. idk about other people though.

I lol'd.

Yeah. I know it wouldn't be too difficult for me. I like pushing the limits of what I can cram in to such a tiny space (giggity) but when I look at some other artists, especially ones just getting off the ground, or ones that have taken no time to teach themselves the basic notions of how any body fits together and decide drawing pretty faces or gobbing on the colors and accessories is enough, they either charge a lot more money for a fully panned shot or refuse to do them outright.

True true there are human characters too.. but not that many human artists! I know I'm hard pressed to ever find any when I want to get a commission for my human characters :( In fact I have yet to even get a portrait from the few I've settled on because their doors are usually closed..

...I'm surprised nobody has mentioned ferals yet... because you know somebody is going to ask for it eventually. Furry porn seems to be pushing it in this community, let alone full blown feral peen all up in ur furcadiaz. Which makes me think... What worries me most is the community reaction to artists who will do some of the more vivid mature portraits as well as their usual ones. Sure lots of people already do gore but if someone actually agrees to draw something that pushes the wrong button, judgement would most likely be silent but existant. Where will the line be drawn between customer satisfaction and losing business?

Offline clockwork

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #20: March 23, 2009, 07:39:57 AM»
...feral sexuality ports would be ...ugh. yeah.

let's just say i'd probably need a sick-proof keyboard cover if i was subjected to 'sexy' ferals.

Offline Grumpyskunk

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #21: March 23, 2009, 07:43:31 AM»
I personally like drawing nipple-less things, not because I'm particularly uncomfortable drawing nipples but, in my opinon, if a furrie has fur then the nipples shouldn't be visable unless they are particularly aroused. I'm not sure about everyone elses furs but mine don't run around constantly horny all the time. But I suppose that depends on fur length, etc. I guess that's just my style though.

[...]

True dat, true dat. :P My fur's are more human than animal, generally speaking. Cats also have 6-8 nipples, while my anthro kitty only has 2. I'm assuming they'd work like a humans and only be erect under certain circumstances, thus only poking through the fur at that point. That's just how I play mine though, to each their own.
... I don't think you understand how nipples or fur work.

Nipples don't become larger when erect, they shrink in size and become harder (think about what happens to them when you're cold. Unless you are sexually aroused by the sensation of cold, logic and science say this is because cold makes things shrink). It's significantly different from the penile concept of erection. In some people, nipples are constantly "erect".

Hair does not grow directly on the nipple in either humans or animals. Characters with fur short enough for the full shape of the breast to actually be visible typically would not have fur long enough to cover the nipple itself. Additionally, fur grows in a pattern (away) that deliberately avoids covering the nipple (nursing would be obviously be difficult if the offspring couldn't easily get to its food source).

If you can see the tit, you should also be able to see the nipple. If you don't want to draw nipples, there are a billion tried and true ways to avoid nudity without going to Barbie/Ken Doll country.

Thanks for the friendly explanation o.o I am obviously not a nipple-ologist. Regardless, I like my nipple-less furries :3 I guess that's just what I'm used to drawing. *shrugs* I don't particularly avoid nudity, I've been known to draw a nipple or vagina here and there but yeah, I wouldn't charge extra to do it just because it's not something I'd normally do. *noddens*

Offline Jenni

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #22: March 23, 2009, 01:54:35 PM»
read a couple sentences.. but.. i wouldn't draw any human dicks or vaginas too because i like my ~clean furcadia~. i narrowed in on furries because the whole sexual side of it is what gives both furries and furcadia itself a bad reputation. you know, yiffing.. fursuits.. i don't think sexual furry portraits will better that idea.

anyway, i'm not even old enough to get adult verification to see the mature portraits, so why should i draw them? i'm just kind of uncomfortable with the whole genitalia thing because of my age. i draw in the middle of the room, my art is always laying around on tables -- i don't want my family seeing what i'm drawing. it's probably the way i was raised. i wouldn't take mature commissions, but since you want to know ~why~ anyone would charge more, i'd charge more because it's outside of my comfort field. you can apply this to artists charging more for species they're unfamiliar with, difficulty, etc. 

as far as seasoned artists who are comfortable with drawing genitalia? greedy pigs.

Offline Azula

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #23: March 24, 2009, 10:15:38 AM»
what about like... mature ports as in bloody and violent scenes?

does "mature" automatically mean "sexual" now?

Offline Anarchy

Re: Mature ports
«Reply #24: March 24, 2009, 10:29:25 AM»
what about like... mature ports as in bloody and violent scenes?

does "mature" automatically mean "sexual" now?

I kno rite. I loves me my gory portraits. I'm just wondering 'How mature is mature?' Will people be allowed to upload an eviscerated furry getting skullfucked? Gratuitous sex scenes? Or does it just mean, a lil more gore and anatomically correct nudity.