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Author Topic: Help/Red line with legs  (Read 2806 times)

Offline Runetta

Help/Red line with legs
«: April 18, 2009, 02:21:59 PM»
Yes, it is in pencil on paper and yes, it is verrrrrrry messy. I'm not done with it yet! It's just a doodle right now. This is a new character I'm designing: Fig. She's a satyr.



I just need some help with the legs. I think I have them at the wrong angle? Whatever it is, they have a definite wonkiness to them. I'm trying to get a kind of "tra-la-la-la" look; like she's prancing around. Any suggestions or advice would help. Red lines (despite that it isn't a digital work) would be great.

I am not looking for critique on anything else right now, thanks!



 
        

IPGD

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #1: April 18, 2009, 04:16:16 PM»
You're not going to be able to achieve a "prancing" look with how straight and stiff the upper body is set. No matter what you do, she's going to look static at best and awkward at worst.

If you are absolutely, absolutely set on everything but the legs, whatever. They look a little short. It's a fantasy creature and proportions obviously vary between artists, but it might help to find a leg design you like from some other art and emulate it (preemptive boob/penis warning for the crap I'm about to link). In some, the thigh and calve are about as long as a normal person's, while in others, the "foot" part takes up a substantial percent of the legs' height, but regardless of the structure, it seems pretty standard to keep the whole stature of the leg about equal in height while standing to the actual human leg. Basically, I'd just make her foot part a lot longer.

 Have a proportion chart too.

Offline Azula

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #2: April 18, 2009, 06:16:48 PM»
the. legs. aren't. going. to. work. with. such. a. stiff. body. it will always look "off" because of it.

Offline Pocketmew

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #3: April 18, 2009, 06:43:38 PM»
Hrm well since the far right leg (her left?) is straight out that would mean she kicked off at that leg. So the other leg would be bent back more where the foot is.

Redline is bad I know xD Its easier to just look at refs



Refs=

http://www.elfwood.com/farp/figure/balance3.gif

http://zedomax.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/10a-running-coach.jpg

IPGD

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #4: April 18, 2009, 06:44:30 PM»
I think I'll just dismiss the fact that you added bits of critique that I specifically said I didn't want right now. Also, your links are forbidden (except the proportions chart).
The body is a cohesive machine. You can't just slap things together with no consideration for how it will relate to the whole. Part of the reason the legs look awkward is because the body is so rigid and stiff.

Just copy paste the url links into a new tab. I didn't realize they had the anti-hotlinking thing
Quote
The legs are the shape I want. Otherwise, I'd be asking what kind of legs I should do. It's just the angle and position that bother me. They just seems... off?

I can kinda see what you mean about the length though. But wouldn't making the calves and the 'foot' part longer work better? I don't want this kind of thing. I want something that looks more elegant, more feminine.
Do whatever you want. I'm just pointing out that they look short. If you want to give her longer calves too or leave her with midget legs, whatever, you can ignore my suggestions.

Quote
Quote
IDEAL PROPORTIONS
Apfffffffffft, ideal.
Yes, these are the ideal/"standard" proportions used in most figure drawings. No, you do not have to copy them exactly; that's why it says ideal and not "every person you ever draw must have this exact body type and proportion set". They are a good basis build off of. I mostly linked them so you could better see just how the length of the legs relate to the body and how much you would want to lengthen them

Unless you're pffting at the fact that Loomis's bitches are ugly as hell, the drawings are from the 60s. Our idea of beauty is a little different now.

Offline Morgan

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #5: April 18, 2009, 06:49:36 PM»
Hrm well since the far right leg (her left?) is straight out that would mean she kicked off at that leg. So the other leg would be bent back more where the foot is.

Redline is bad I know xD Its easier to just look at refs



Refs=

http://www.elfwood.com/farp/figure/balance3.gif

http://zedomax.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/10a-running-coach.jpg


that redline makes no fucking sense. you're one of the last people fit to redline things when your grasp on anatomy is as bad as it is. please stop.

Offline Eevee

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #6: April 18, 2009, 06:55:58 PM»
For help with the legs alone, I think it looks wonky right now because compared to the top half of the body, the lower half is too small for it.

From what I've observed (dancing in front of a mirror more like it), a female's hips are wider than their chest, excluding breasts, which then effects the length of the thighs from pelvis to knee and then from knee to ankle.

Try making the lower half larger and the legs a little longer.

IPGD

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #7: April 18, 2009, 07:05:41 PM»

I fucked up with the back leg because I don't fucking know how to draw ungulate legs

Basically, check your perspective. Try doing one of those X things that I did under your figure to orient yourself

Offline Pocketmew

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #8: April 18, 2009, 07:15:42 PM»
Sorry, I try to help instead of saying you suck to them >>. I even stated the redline sucked, hence refs provided. I'm sick of people being such assholes on these forums =.= and yes I'm working on my anatomy kthx.

Offline Hugo

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #9: April 19, 2009, 01:38:27 PM»
I'm not an awesome artist but for running motions it's good to have the legs looking very lively. When you trot it's weird for both of your feet to be on the ground, same for Satyrs. I only red-lined the arms to show some more motion (actually the I think I may have screwed it up and her other arm should be the one near her chest but oh well).

Size can be adjusted depending on your satyr design, but that's the basic goaty shape.

Offline Creek

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #10: April 19, 2009, 05:59:51 PM»
Sorry, I try to help instead of saying you suck to them >>. I even stated the redline sucked, hence refs provided. I'm sick of people being such assholes on these forums =.= and yes I'm working on my anatomy kthx.

They're not really being assholes. They're just being honest without any asspats inside there. Sorry if some people can't handle brutal honesty.

And Hugo, That looks good XD kinda what I imagined on what Runetta was lookin for!

Offline Artspace

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #11: April 19, 2009, 08:23:53 PM»
Hello!

Once upon a time, I belonged to an art community where some of the best people there also were jerks when delivering critiques.  It was a shame.  Eventually their reputation preceded them wherever they went, and no one bothered to look at their art anymore.  Those same people dabbled a little in professional things, but the same people they were jerks to, became their audience and potential customers.  And guess what?  No one ever bought their work.

Please remember that whether online or off, being nice to others will result in a more successful career for yourself.  Trust me, it WILL come back to haunt you if you're rude!

I didn't know at first when I looked at this doodle that the satyr was supposed to be prancing.  I just thought it was a sort of action stance, and suggested Rune turn the top part of her body down as well.  I know that's all we're discussing here is the legs, but that's the thing--the reason it looks wonky is because the legs don't match the upper body.  The legs are a lovely shape and I wouldn't change them (go rage in a corner by yourself if you think she should, everyone's opinion is JUST an opinion and nothing more).  If it's a stance she wants, then the legs are great.  If it's prancing, then changing the back leg to give it more of a pushing-off-into-the-air look would make it work.

Good luck on your design, Runetta!

Offline Dolly

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #12: April 19, 2009, 08:34:03 PM»
bawwwwwwww

More crits less the aforementioned.

I think it'd help the OP a lot to do some basic anatomy study.  Again, as I have in the past, I'll provide you with a magic link that I myself have found oh so useful when looking for references and shit to study: www.google.com

Ultimately in order to get this to look as if the satyr/goat/whatever is actually in-motion and not just some stiff lifeless 2-D mannequin stuck in a white world void of detail you're going to have to really branch out and actually put the effort forth to learn something. I'd sincerely advise you to rethink the shoulder/arm position and general torso position.  While in motion, the torso doesn't remain perfectly aligned top to bottom.  Muscles move, curves change, the whole body swivels in motion particularly in the shoulder and hip area.

Examples:
http://www.transgrowthinc.com/images/iStock_woman_running.jpg
http://www.democratherald.com/dhblogs/mike_henneke/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/woman-running-707870.jpg
http://www.dietwellnesscoach.com/Images/woman-running2%20copy.jpg
via www.google.com

Offline Artspace

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #13: April 19, 2009, 08:41:31 PM»
Hello Dolly!  ...Get it?  I cracked a joke.  Nyuck-nyuck-nyuck. 

Anyway, I hope you don't mind that I'm reporting all rude posts in this thread.   There's always a way to say something without bashing the other person!

Offline Dolly

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #14: April 19, 2009, 08:44:28 PM»
You're the one that's being genuinely negative and off-topic, dear, so I'll say it again, more crits less bawwwing.

Also, reply passive agressively to this if you wish, but I'll refrain from replying as it'll just clog up the topic with shit that is not helping the OP improve.

IPGD

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #15: April 19, 2009, 08:46:49 PM»
Quote
Hello!

Once upon a time, I belonged to an art community where some of the best people there also were jerks when delivering critiques.  It was a shame.  Eventually their reputation preceded them wherever they went, and no one bothered to look at their art anymore.  Those same people dabbled a little in professional things, but the same people they were jerks to, became their audience and potential customers.  And guess what?  No one ever bought their work.

Please remember that whether online or off, being nice to others will result in a more successful career for yourself.  Trust me, it WILL come back to haunt you if you're rude!
Sort of off topic, but I think it's far more likely their work wasn't bought simply because it wasn't very good. I honestly don't think the negative opinion of a few tens or hundreds of people on the internet will ultimately affect your professional career, considering a) it's very easy to separate yourself from your online identity if you don't go around posting your personal information where anyone can see, and b) most consumers of art are non-artists. Unless you're just talking about the furry art community, which doesn't really offer many professional opportunities to begin with. This seems more like some sort of "the boogeyman will get you if you don't eat your vegetables" scare-tale designed to bully little kids into doing what you tell them than any kind of helpful warning or advice.


As for Runetta's latest revision, it's an improvement. They look more like humanoid legs than the unguligrade kind I'd assumed you were going for, but if that's what you actually wanted, I guess it's fine.

Basically, what Dolly said. No matter how perfect you try to make the legs they're going to look off in contrast to that body.

Offline Artspace

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #16: April 19, 2009, 08:49:59 PM»
Great!  Hi, nice to meet you, Matter!  I'm so happy we can all be positive together.  It's really nice to have a sense of kinship in any art community, don't you think?  We're all here to help one another, not put each other down.  Besides, all the pros in the real world?  They're nice.  And the rude ones get made fun of. :D

And yes, the person who was rude did it on a professional forum.  Contrary to popular belief, but there are a lot of web-crawling artists who will look at critique forums and give out pointers.  They also see when someone is rude and remember that for later.  Word can get around quickly if you aren't a nice person.

But happy to meet you both!  And thanks to Hugo for the awesome pointer.

Offline Morgan

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #17: April 19, 2009, 08:55:29 PM»
you know, it looks like the head and neck are in a completely different perspective to the rest of the body, which throws it off a ton.

Offline Dolly

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #18: April 19, 2009, 08:55:52 PM»
As for arm anatomy...

http://www.colorado.edu/intphys/iphy3415/Arm1.jpg

Seriously, man.  www.google.com pays off with minimal effort.

Offline Zodiac

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #19: April 19, 2009, 09:12:57 PM»
This thread is being locked for the time being, as rules of the forum are going under revision regarding critique, due to some of the issues found here.

Offline Zodiac

Re: Help/Red line with legs
«Reply #20: April 19, 2009, 09:15:47 PM»
In case no one bothered to read or conveniently forgot:

THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT LEGS.

If you don't have anything to add about the legs, then don't bothered posting.

Dolly, I do study. Studying does not equal instant and amazing skill or complete grasps of a subject. Take the preaching and your passive aggressiveness somewhere else.

One of the issues is that it is almost impossible to give an accurate review of a piece, when more than one area in the piece needs fixing in order to be right. If you cannot take the heat, then get out of the kitchen. As stated in this thread, the body us a full piece that functions as a whole, and if the legs are doing one thing while the upper body is doing another, it will never look right. If you cannot grasp this, then you should not be looking for critique, because it is going to be brought up, without a question.