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Author Topic: Can you edit what you paid for?  (Read 3015 times)

Shan

  • Topic Author
Can you edit what you paid for?
«: September 20, 2009, 11:16:15 AM»
This may not be really in depth, but some people may want to get right into details.

I want to know your opinions. I commissioned a portrait years ago.. and I can't find the artist anymore. I would love to get it edited and freshened up, and I paid for it. So what do you think as artists? Should I be allowed to do what I want with it and edit it (major or minor) myself because I paid for it? Or not? State your opinions please!

Thanks.

 
        

Offline Hugo

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #1: September 20, 2009, 11:56:03 AM»
I think you should make an honest attempt to get permission (if they say no, then don't do it, but likewise they should make that clear before the commission is paid for) and if you can't, go ahead and edit but be sure to leave the signature and to not claim the portrait as your own sole work.

Offline Old Account Please Delete

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #2: September 20, 2009, 04:05:22 PM»
Well, I think you should try and find the origional artist. Sure, you've already looked but keep looking! To be honest though, as long as you don't like change the whole port/ new lineart etc and keep the logo of the artist I don't see why they'd be bothered. Its not like you're reselling it right?

Offline Hathor

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #3: September 20, 2009, 04:33:15 PM»
I agree with the above. Some artists don't like it being edited, but they should make that clear at the start. Personally I don't mind if people edit artwork I made for them, whether it's a commission or a gift, just as long as they leave my sig on. Though if an artist has stated not to edit it, then I believe you should respect that.. but only if they make it clear to you before you buy it, like posted it in their rules or something.

Also, you might be able to find the artist with the help of FAZ. Maybe show us the port?
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Offline Sdae

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #4: September 24, 2009, 12:26:09 PM»
I agree with the above. Some artists don't like it being edited, but they should make that clear at the start. Personally I don't mind if people edit artwork I made for them, whether it's a commission or a gift, just as long as they leave my sig on. Though if an artist has stated not to edit it, then I believe you should respect that.. but only if they make it clear to you before you buy it, like posted it in their rules or something.

Also, you might be able to find the artist with the help of FAZ. Maybe show us the port?

Agreed with what Hathor said. Usually the artist does make a point, and/or rule about not editting their artwork in any way. I would just suggest to keep trying to find the artist. If you do decide to edit it, leave the signature, still give the credit to the artist.

Offline Narnia

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #5: September 25, 2009, 08:04:41 PM»
If you paid for a custom piece of work I believe that you have the rights to edit the work. The artist doesn't own the artwork anymore. You do.

As I've said before. It's like buying a famous painting. Once you buy it there is nothing stopping you from drawing on it.

With that said, you need to leave their signature in place and make sure not they are still credited for the original artwork and you are only credited for the additional changes.

(I have a very different view on digital artwork ownership than some other regular FAZ users. A discussion on reselling artwork occurred here.. I'm still looking to see if the one from FAM exists. It's somewhat applicable to your question.)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2009, 08:10:10 PM by Narnia »
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Art Zone, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline binkari

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #6: September 26, 2009, 04:46:43 AM»
Nowadays, it might be worth your while to discuss the terms of use whenever you look to commissioning an artist. A large portion of art on the Internet exists solely as a digital copy, so it makes it nearly impossible to physically possess anything.

Most artists I've seen that work primarily with digital art offer commissions with the ToU limited to the commissioner's personal galleries and webpages-- that is, artists rarely give the buyer complete, exclusive rights to the piece. Most of the time, there is a (somewhat) tacit agreement that, when it comes to digital pieces, you are essentially buying the right to be able to distribute within certain bounds (i.e. no commercial use, credit must be given to the artist, etc). In a nutshell, these sorts of things are best handled on a case-by-case basis when it comes to freelance work.

Offline neca

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #7: November 29, 2009, 12:19:07 AM»
I don't think this is a matter of "can you", more of a matter of "should you". Theoretically anyone who commissions me CAN alter my artwork. They paid for it, right? In my opinion artwork is the vision of the artist and is theirs, whether someone buys it or not. To me, unless otherwise agreed upon and sold the rights to, when you buy artwork you buy the right to display the artwork as is. Just because it's physically possible to change it in some way doesn't mean it should be or that it's 'okay' to.

Personally, when people commission me, they're not allowed to alter the work in any way without my permission, nor to resell the item for profit in the case of portraits. If they want something done to it, they can ask me to do so.

Offline LSD

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #8: December 01, 2009, 09:06:49 PM»
ask ahead of time. *shrugs*

Offline Blot

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #9: December 15, 2009, 11:01:37 PM»
If it was me, I would just like a heads up. I mean, I have it specifically in my contract that a person should not edit my work. But 99% of my work is Traditional, so that changes things up a bit.

I would just, if you can, give the artist a bit of a 'Hey, I was curious if I could just touch this up a bit, since it's been a while and the characters has Changed/*insert reason here*'
FA: Furaffinity.net/User/Blot

Offline Atreyu

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #10: December 18, 2009, 01:19:24 PM»
i agree with narnia.
it's yours- so long as you don't credit the image to yourself, then i'd say go nuts. if you obtain a piece of art, it's yours.
only reason i ask for people to tell me if they move a port or image from one alt to another is so i can track and make sure no one has ripped the image fro the person it rightfully belongs to. if they want to move it, edit the crap out of it, whatever to it- go freaking nuts it's yours to do so, but there may be confusion if people confront me like 'was this port like this/made for so and so?'
...but then it all just comes down to asking, so even then it's not a huge deal.
if something like this bothers you, then you really shouldn't be taking commissions- that's just my personal opinion though.
in-game contacts: atreyu, trey, tourniquet, maverick.

Offline ADALEINE

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #11: January 14, 2010, 02:15:41 PM»
If I paid for it and the artist refuses to edit it to my standards, I'm going to edit it myself, regardless of their policies.

I did not pay whatever amount just to have a port not look right. End of story on my part.

Offline Sync

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #12: January 14, 2010, 02:50:14 PM»
i don't see why artists have such a problem with editing a lot of the time.
personally, i'm for editing of portraits. i really dislike it when i have to go to the artist just to get edits done. it takes a really long time to explain what exactly you want edited, and in the end if the artist just keeps misinterpreting, they charge! this could too be the fault of the commissioner, but chances are they probably would've had less of a headache doing it their self.

i also hate the 'only the artist can edit' policy in the sense that people will come and bother me to edit pictures that i did months ago, and assume that because i am the artist, i am obligated to do these edits. i'm usually a good sport about it, but i doubt that any artist in the real world would do so.

i personally allow all editing, reselling, etc of my portrait and will not commission and artist if they disallow edits. just me though.

Offline Tycho

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #13: January 14, 2010, 03:24:48 PM»
I agree with Narnia and Adaleine and Sync and everyone that said edits are okay. I make attempts to contact the artist if I, say, have them on AIM or something and they're online but otherwise... I paid for it. It's mine now. If you weren't going to make edits or charge out the ass for them then I have permission to. I never change a signature on a port, but if I make drastic((enough)) changes that alter the original piece ((that I paid for, mind you)) I might add my own signature as well. But not often. This happened when I edited a Dwy port I got. I asked if I could make a major edit, she said yes, and also that she'd change the deviation description to mention it so no one's heads were cut off.

To Neca:

So basically, you're saying if a single pixel is out of line I have to come to you to change it? Or if the hair is too short, or if the tail is too long, the ears too pointy, etc? Boy howdy you sure must get tired of ports and editing them with your standards.


Basically, I ask for edits I can't do myself. If I can or feel like I can I don't bother. If it's a port of MY CHARACTER, I've paid for the rights to the artwork. I leave the artist's signature there out of obvious respect and credit to them, but I'm not going to pay extra for something I can do myself.

To add to that, even when artists offer FREE EDITS if something's too off I'm gonna feel like a dick asking for a lot of edits, and even worse if they're like 'well i can just make it again'.

That all said, though, this is mainly referring to ports. I don't alter digital work because I don't have the means to.

Offline neca

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #14: January 17, 2010, 04:18:34 AM»
I suppose if they asked me "Do you mind if I edit this bit?" I probably wouldn't really care, but if they just did it without asking it would bother me (I don't know quite why, it just would). However, the few times I've had someone ask me, I just offered to do it and never really had any issues. Usually when I finish a portrait I show it to them and ask them if there's anything final they want added or changed, so I've just never really run into the issue.

Offline Hugo

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #15: January 21, 2010, 09:35:03 AM»
Most artists have a problem with people doing it because either a.) they're available for contact/asking and b.) Most people suck ass at editing and no one wants their signature on a piece of shit that looks stolen.

Offline neca

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #16: January 21, 2010, 04:34:15 PM»
Most artists have a problem with people doing it because either a.) they're available for contact/asking and b.) Most people suck ass at editing and no one wants their signature on a piece of shit that looks stolen.

Haha, this is another reason, yes.

Offline Feralian

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #17: February 01, 2010, 06:23:56 PM»
Personally as an artist, I'd like to be notified or even asked before editing art. But I do agree with Narnia on one thing- once they buy it, it's theirs! They can not upload it, they can scribble on it and upload it- whatever. Maybe it's a bit greedy, but I'm more concerned more about the GD I make from selling them than the work itself. After all, it's basically a trade- your money, my art. If they aren't allowed to tell me what I'm allowed to buy with their GD, I shouldn't be allowed to tell them what they're allowed to do with my art? Yeah, I worked hard on the art, but they worked hard to get the money ( supposedly ). It's an equal trade. The ONLY thing I would restrain them for is removing my sig- just because, that's art theft. Now, no one can "copyright" their own money so it doesn't work the other way around, obviously. But if they want to erase my shading and shade it themselves? Well, then they should've just bought the lines and made it cheaper and easier on everyone, but personally it doesn't bother me. :)

But as for a universal thing, I'd advise someone to do their very best to ask the artist first, before uploading it. HOWEVER, if it's like a very small change- like, that one stripe is in the wrong place or you want to edit the remaps a bit- then I don't think the artist would mind. But the lines, or shading? Something that was uniquely theirs? I personally believe it is the right and respectful thing to ask them first.

Offline Sealeo

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #18: February 08, 2010, 02:27:47 PM»
I don't think this is a matter of "can you", more of a matter of "should you". Theoretically anyone who commissions me CAN alter my artwork. They paid for it, right? In my opinion artwork is the vision of the artist and is theirs, whether someone buys it or not. To me, unless otherwise agreed upon and sold the rights to, when you buy artwork you buy the right to display the artwork as is. Just because it's physically possible to change it in some way doesn't mean it should be or that it's 'okay' to.

Personally, when people commission me, they're not allowed to alter the work in any way without my permission, nor to resell the item for profit in the case of portraits. If they want something done to it, they can ask me to do so.

Agree.

My beef with no editing arises from the fact that I have my 'artistic' vision as an artist, and if someone edits the artwork, that vision may become skewed. My signature remains on the piece, signifying that I authored that edited version, which, in fact, I did not. This is why I ask that all customers ask me to edit the artwork for them, because then it is an 'authorized' alteration.

People who are scared off by the "major edits require extra money" should instead give the artist more complete details and references to avoid any misunderstanding. I, personally, draw a sketch before proceeding to ensure that the customer is satisfied with the basics of the artwork.

Offline Tycho

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #19: February 08, 2010, 03:00:08 PM»
Quote
People who are scared off by the "major edits require extra money" should instead give the artist more complete details and references to avoid any misunderstanding.

You can give an artist as many details as you personally know, and they can STILL get it wrong. And A LOT of artists don't even show sketches, they take the commission and give a completed piece with no communication in between. I hate asking for edits because, most of the time, the artist is a real hard-ass about it, gripes and groans, and then -I- feel like the asshole for asking. And now everyone has 'bitching fees', which I feel artists use now as an excuse to not do the work or not do it as they were asked.

I KNOW they're supposed to be there so the artist isn't badgered, but with more and more 'popular' artists doing it nowadays, it just seems like a cop out. It keeps people from talking to them, it puts up a barrier between the customer and the artist and it discourages people asking for edits because they feel like ANYTHING they have to say is bothersome to the artist. No matter how much YOU say 'that's not what a bitching fee implies', that's what artists are making it out to imply. Some of them are impersonal enough as it is, commissioners might as well be picked out of a hat the artists have so little to do with them.

From a timid person's standpoint, asking for edits - especially stupid, small ones - is a challenge. I know I'd feel like an idiot asking someone to 'move this one pixel two spots to the left' because, most of the time, they'd just tell me to do it myself.

Offline Wulf

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #20: February 10, 2010, 07:24:40 PM»
I'm indecisive about this topic.

I agree that once you've paid and received a piece of art, it's yours to do what you want with it.
As long as the signature is left intact.

Always read an artists rules and wishes BEFORE you commission them. Don't complain when they don't want you to edit it after the fact.

It's simple: If you don't like an artists rules, commission someone else.
If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.

Offline Sapphirus

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #21: February 13, 2010, 11:12:35 PM»
I have this pending issue where this port I made for someone's alt long ago, has been bought by another, now they want to take the port off because they don't use it, asking me if they can resell it or something. They bawed when I told them who are they to sell another's work because they don't want it on the alt they bought etc? Why not just erase it off an be done with that? It's been paid for.

Instead they want me to get them a space to transfer the port to another alt... ._.

*First time being in this situation*

But I agree, it's always good to read the rules of the commisioner before doing anything with them, many people are too damn lazy and just be like "HI ARE YOU TAKING COMMISIONS 8D?!" without even reading your site's guidlines..

Offline Hathor

Re: Can you edit what you paid for?
«Reply #22: February 14, 2010, 03:10:18 PM»
I have this pending issue where this port I made for someone's alt long ago, has been bought by another, now they want to take the port off because they don't use it, asking me if they can resell it or something. They bawed when I told them who are they to sell another's work because they don't want it on the alt they bought etc? Why not just erase it off an be done with that? It's been paid for.

Instead they want me to get them a space to transfer the port to another alt... ._.

*First time being in this situation*

But I agree, it's always good to read the rules of the commisioner before doing anything with them, many people are too damn lazy and just be like "HI ARE YOU TAKING COMMISIONS 8D?!" without even reading your site's guidlines..

Perhaps they had to pay for the ports on the alt as well as paying for the name? Alot of people price alts higher for each port the alt has. It's understandable that they want to resell it, they can gain some money back from the sale. If they sell the port for the same price that it was originally commissioned for - I don't see the problem with that, but that's just my opinion. Some artists don't seem to like having ports resold, in that case, there is nothing stopping the person from just not using the port. Sure they might have 'lost out' on some money from having to pay extra for a port they don't want, but hey that happens in alt trading.

I don't see what right they have to ask you to buy spaces or SS to help them remove the port though. They probably should have checked all of this with the previous owner of the alt.
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